Emotion in regards to chords & scales

[DeathKnell]

Does anyone have a good source that gives a rough idea of which chords in different keys trigger certain aural emotions?

Can certain scales act in the same way, or is this mostly associated with harmonies?

thanks

[Aaron Cheney]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a book with such content, but it's interesting to analyze.

In terms of scales, the modes might be a great place to start. I wouldn't say each has an emotion, but each certainly has a unique sound, e.g. Dorian sounds jazzy, Phrygian sounds Spanish, etc.

Other scales certainly have unique sounds, e.g. Harmonic Minor sounds Egyptian, Diminished scale sounds unsettled.

In terms of chords, it's really hard to assign emotions to chords other than in a very general way.... i.e. Major chords sounds neutral, Minor chords darker.

When you're talking about chord progressions, I think you there are certain movements that can invoke a certain feeling or mood, but it's inextricably linked to other factors, like the melody and the arrangement. For example, going from the Major to the relative minor always has a certain feel to it.... think Desperado ( G to Em).

Trouble is... there are an unlimited amount of possible chord combinations and catalouging them all is impossible. I've been writing songs for a while now and I've certainly learned a few chord combinations I like to use for certain things. I've also overused my share... the major to relative minor move for one! I've also stumbled on lots of chord changes that I would never have done intentionaly and found something new and exciting.... that's the best of all.

Surprise chords that work are awesome. My favorite example right now is in the Joe Nichols song Brokenheartsville. Don't know who wrote it off the top of my head, but I know it wasn't Joe. It's in D (relative to the capo, which is on the 3rd fret I think), but during the chorus, insteading going to the relative minor chord of Bm, he plays a surprise "B" (major) when he sings the words "coupe de ville". It totally catches you by surprise and is an awesome hook in that song. I doubt you will ever come across a book that can quantify something like that.

It just comes with experience and experimentation.

A

[Aaron Cheney]

BTW... I'd like to point out the proper use of the latin abbreviations "e.g." and "i.e." in the above post, and thank Garry Sharp for his assistance and support.

A





p.s. I had to edit it twice to make sure I got it right, and I'm still not sure....

[Garry Sharp]

Oh, we do know how to have fun, don't we?

Your first (only) use of i.e. was slightly off - i.e. is a definitive statement (that is) whereas in fact you were giving examples so e.g. would have fitted better. Of course you could always do what I generally prefer and just talk in English

Back to the question, I find it difficult to get away from the temptation to fall back on the Mixolydian (in English, the major with the flattened 7th), which with the minor 3rd of course gives your classic blues scale. It's not a good habit, it becomes like a quick fix. Have to try harder.

[Benreturns]

Beatles: The Cm in She Loves You
Return to A in the bridge of Please Please Me after C#m
Things we said Today - A maj from Am (middle 8)


Are some of mine...

[DeathKnell]

Originally Posted by Aaron Cheney

I'm not sure I've ever seen a book with such content, but it's interesting to analyze.

In terms of scales, the modes might be a great place to start. I wouldn't say each has an emotion, but each certainly has a unique sound, e.g. Dorian sounds jazzy, Phrygian sounds Spanish, etc.

Other scales certainly have unique sounds, e.g. Harmonic Minor sounds Egyptian, Diminished scale sounds unsettled.

In terms of chords, it's really hard to assign emotions to chords other than in a very general way.... i.e. Major chords sounds neutral, Minor chords darker.

When you're talking about chord progressions, I think you there are certain movements that can invoke a certain feeling or mood, but it's inextricably linked to other factors, like the melody and the arrangement. For example, going from the Major to the relative minor always has a certain feel to it.... think Desperado ( G to Em).

Trouble is... there are an unlimited amount of possible chord combinations and catalouging them all is impossible. I've been writing songs for a while now and I've certainly learned a few chord combinations I like to use for certain things. I've also overused my share... the major to relative minor move for one! I've also stumbled on lots of chord changes that I would never have done intentionaly and found something new and exciting.... that's the best of all.

Surprise chords that work are awesome. My favorite example right now is in the Joe Nichols song Brokenheartsville. Don't know who wrote it off the top of my head, but I know it wasn't Joe. It's in D (relative to the capo, which is on the 3rd fret I think), but during the chorus, insteading going to the relative minor chord of Bm, he plays a surprise "B" (major) when he sings the words "coupe de ville". It totally catches you by surprise and is an awesome hook in that song. I doubt you will ever come across a book that can quantify something like that.

It just comes with experience and experimentation.

A

wow thanks for that insight.. I have found of late that people who seem to have less of a music theory background and more of a musician background tend to be the ones who can find the emotional chords easiest.. I think they have the ear for it and can pinpoint it right away.

[dgatwood]

The most emotional chord to me, at least if "plaintive" is the emotion you're looking for, would have to be a minor 9, particularly in certain (fairly) open voicings. The second most plaintive, IMHO, would be a major 9 in a similar voicing, particularly in the context of a minor 9. For example, play the folllowing five-note rolled chords from the bottom up as four eighth notes and a half note with the pedal down:

A E B C G
F C G A E
D A E F C
Bb F C D A
G D A Bf F
Eb Bb F G D
D A F# D A

I also like 11 chords in a similar voicing:

E B A D F# G
C G G D F# G

For that example, I suggest the bottom two notes as a whole note chord, and the upper four notes as four sets of four sixteenth notes starting from the top down, e.g. G F# D A G F# D A G F# D A G F# D A. Then the second chord. Repeat as needed.

Beyond that, I feel like having lots of open fifths (and to a lesser extent, fourths) in your voicing tends to either result in a very regal sound (if you play something in a fanfare-like style, e.g. a lot of Copland pieces) or a very soulful sound in slower passages. Dissonances such as the minor second interval in a couple of the above can take an otherwise sad sound and turn it into agonizing loneliness in a heartbeat....

On the other hand, Beethoven would say exactly the opposite, tending towards dense chords in even some of the bottom parts of chords in some of his most sad sounding works, choosing to instead convey sadness through the combination of minor chords and falling pitch on the last note of the melodic line. Take the Pathetique Sonata for a good example.

IMHO, there are as many ways to convey emotion as there are people wanting to do so. The one universal truth is that the feeling in music is only as real as the emotions behind it. Dig deeply into your own feelings and write from the heart.

[Aaron Cheney]

Originally Posted by Benreturns

Beatles: The Cm in She Loves You
Return to A in the bridge of Please Please Me after C#m
Things we said Today - A maj from Am (middle 8)
Are some of mine...

If we're talking Beatles, how about the chords in Mother Nature's Son?? If memory servers:

D, Dsus4, Dm, G, D in the intro

D, Dmaj7, D7, G, Gm, D in the chorus

I think they covered just about every "D" chord in that song (not to mention the move from G to Gm)!!

A

[Aaron Cheney]

While I was typing the above post, I had a related thought.

Here's a tried and true "chord progression mood setter": if you want to evoke an almost "fairy tale" or "music box" kind of mood, pick chords that move one note within the chords down a half step with each new chord.

That was utterly confunsing. Sorry. Maybe this will be more effective:

One example is the chorus chord progression from Mother Nature's Son as mentioned above, but an even better example is the intro to Stairway to Heaven. Play the intro and watch the lowest note move down a half-step with each new chord.

Any time you do that.... instant "music box" feel.

A

[DeathKnell]

I'm thinking moody as in... slit wrists, force ones head through a concrete wall-type mood evoking...

most pop music seems to inundate me with powerchords and i'd like to create something slightly more intensive...

[Benreturns]

Theres some nice modulations at the end of Bungalow Bill...

With regard to the above post would you all class 'Something' in that catagory. Verse runs through 3 variations of a C chord before settling on the F...

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by DeathKnell

I'm thinking moody as in... slit wrists, force ones head through a concrete wall-type mood evoking...

most pop music seems to inundate me with powerchords and i'd like to create something slightly more intensive...

A lot of Queensryche's earlier stuff was written like that. Very moody, powerful chord progressions that were simple, yet effective.

Listen to "Roads to Madness".....


The lyrics helped set the tone, but I think they would have been less effective if the chord progression was different. I don't have it in front of me, or I'd try to pick it out....

[lykwydchykyn]

I used to think there were direct correllations between certain scales and modes and certain emotions, but really it's not so close as all that. Actually, the character of most modes can't really adequately be summed up by any words I know.
Everyone says stuff like "major is happy, minor is sad", but I've heard stuff in major that could break your heart.

I could sit here and try to describe things, but man, sit down for two hours with a chord book and an instrument and you can get more information than I could put in an encyclopedia.

[Aaron Cheney]

Originally Posted by lykwydchykyn

I used to think there were direct correllations between certain scales and modes and certain emotions, but really it's not so close as all that. Actually, the character of most modes can't really adequately be summed up by any words I know.
Everyone says stuff like "major is happy, minor is sad", but I've heard stuff in major that could break your heart.

I could sit here and try to describe things, but man, sit down for two hours with a chord book and an instrument and you can get more information than I could put in an encyclopedia.

Yup.

When people say "major is happy, minor is sad", it's usually to help someone new to music hear the difference in the way major and minor sound, but chords really don't carry any emotional weight of their own.

Experience will teach you what certain chord movements and scales will sound like, and once you understand that you start to learn where and when to put them to evoke the feeling you're going for in a particular context. Emotion really ends up being the sum total of the rythm, melody, harmony, lyrics, performance, etc.

Here's a great example: David Lee Roth's version of Just a Gigolo. Very, very sad lyrics, but the song doesn't feel sad at all.

I will say there are certain chord progression that always seem to be used for certain moods, but you have to be very careful about using them or you end up writing a parody instead of a song.

A

[spariam]

Originally Posted by Aaron Cheney

When people say "major is happy, minor is sad", it's usually to help someone new to music hear the difference in the way major and minor sound, but chords really don't carry any emotional weight of their own.
A

"It's part of a trilogy, a musical trilogy I'm working on in D minor which is the saddest of all keys, I find. People weep instantly when they hear it, and I don't know why." - Nigel Tufnel

[Aaron Cheney]

Originally Posted by spariam

"...D minor which is the saddest of all keys, I find." - Nigel Tufnel

Heck yes it is!

Bach's Tacotta and Fugue in D Minor is in D minor if memory serves, and it's very moody.

A

[Garry Sharp]

...is it sort of Spinal Tap-ey

Aaron I think he got ya

[Aaron Cheney]

No..... I got it. I was trying to make a joke in return. I guess it wasn't that funny.

A

[Garry Sharp]

Ah, sorry. What's D Minor in Latin?

[Aaron Cheney]

Originally Posted by Garry Sharp

Ah, sorry. What's D Minor in Latin?

Now THAT'S funny!!! LOL

A

[Secret Clubhous]

Interesting thread.
I studied & played N. Indian classical music for years, & that culture has a huge amt. of in-depth material about this subject--as far as melody is concerned, anyway. It's all incredibly detailed & esoteric. Think the Kama Sutra version of music theory. They really have it down to a science. There are legends about musicians who were so good they could evoke fire with certain ragas, etc. They definitely respect the power of one note, & all the micro-pitches in between.

They don't use harmony, so chords aren't part of the mix. But there are hundreds of ragas designed to specifically evoke certain moods at certain times of the day, etc. They are all subsets of 10 basic scales that are kind of like modes. Ragas are not only scales but specific ways the notes move in relation to each other. For instance, using a major 7th when ascending & a minor 7th when descending.

Then again, lots of African music uses "happy sounding" progressions but when you find out what the words mean, it's oten depressing. I find this dichotomy fascinating. From what I experienced there, I think maybe it reflects a certain attitude toward life: when life is the shits, keep dancing & smiling 'cause that's all you can do, if that's all that's left.

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by DeathKnell

I'm thinking moody as in... slit wrists, force ones head through a concrete wall-type mood evoking...

most pop music seems to inundate me with powerchords and i'd like to create something slightly more intensive...

Wow, you sound like a cheery lad.

Am --> Em
or
Dm --> Bm

Lather, rinse, repeat.