Computer Recording

[ibanezrocks]

Ok, I would like to begin computer recording, I will just be micing my guitar amp and maybe occasionally my acoustic guitar. I plan on buying a Shure Sm57 as I hear thats the best affordable mic and should work fine for what I need.
Where I have no idea what to do is how to get the mic signal into the computer. Im reading way too many things and just confusing myself more, so I'd like someone to explain this to me, do I need a mic preamp and if so where on my computer would that connect to, how much do they cost, and whats a decent one? and whats this firewire stuff Ive heard about? is the firewire thing the same as a usb interface? and if not, what are the benefits of a usb interface? and could you also please recommend a way for me to record to my computer, keep in mind a budget of about $500. Thanks

[Steal Sessions]

Originally Posted by ibanezrocks

Ok, I would like to begin computer recording, I will just be micing my guitar amp and maybe occasionally my acoustic guitar. I plan on buying a Shure Sm57 as I hear thats the best affordable mic and should work fine for what I need.
Where I have no idea what to do is how to get the mic signal into the computer. Im reading way too many things and just confusing myself more, so I'd like someone to explain this to me, do I need a mic preamp and if so where on my computer would that connect to, how much do they cost, and whats a decent one? and whats this firewire stuff Ive heard about? is the firewire thing the same as a usb interface? and if not, what are the benefits of a usb interface? and could you also please recommend a way for me to record to my computer, keep in mind a budget of about $500. Thanks

Well, you could basically use the original soundcard in your computer, it should have a stereo line input. This input can be connected to a simple mic amp like the DMP-3 from M-audio and using a mic (like the SM57) and a mic cable you should be up and running. With a setup like that you can lateron add an extra microphone (for stereo recording acoustic guitars for instance or for recording guitar and vox at the same time. You can then record 2 chanels of mono input at the same time. Of course it would be better to use a 'dedicated' soundcard like the DETA44 (M-Audio) to have better Annalouge-digital converters.

This should be possible below the 500 $ i guess..

The line input of your computer is a 3.5mm mini-jack (stereo) and the output of the DMP-3 is (balanced) Jack. you cannot input ballanced signals into a normal soundcard, but recording it unballanced should work fine when using short cables. So a cable you need might look like this:

cable

Connected to the DMP-3 using 2 adapters like this:

adapter

Good luck and have fun.

[philpereira]

there's a very simple solution. for what you seem to want to do, a usb or firewire interface will do the trick. i personally use the mobilepre usb by m-audio. it's a recording interface with mic preamps that plugs in via usb. you can plug in two xlr mics (like the sm57) into it and it has phantom power in case you want to use a condensor mic. you can also monitor what you play directly through the device (i use headphones so i can hear what everything sounds like being recorded). they go for $150 on ebay and retail stores. i'm thinking of selling mine for another m-audio product, and am thinking of parting with it for $120, so if that strikes your fancy, i may be able to help you. i've seen other devices out there and this one seems the most straight forward to me, which is why i use it. what type of computer are you using? the reason i ask is that a pci card may be right for you too, depending on the computer you have. if you record in different locations on different computers or a laptop, then usb or firewire is the way to go. let us know if you have any other questions. best of luck

[TimOBrien]

Before you go out and start spending your limited money,
get yourself a good beginner book and READ EVERYTHING YOU CAN.

This is a good starter book:

Home Recording for Dummies

(Dont take offense by the title, it's a good primer.)

[robgb]

Originally Posted by ibanezrocks

Ok, I would like to begin computer recording, I will just be micing my guitar amp and maybe occasionally my acoustic guitar. I plan on buying a Shure Sm57 as I hear thats the best affordable mic and should work fine for what I need.
Where I have no idea what to do is how to get the mic signal into the computer. Im reading way too many things and just confusing myself more, so I'd like someone to explain this to me, do I need a mic preamp and if so where on my computer would that connect to, how much do they cost, and whats a decent one? and whats this firewire stuff Ive heard about? is the firewire thing the same as a usb interface? and if not, what are the benefits of a usb interface? and could you also please recommend a way for me to record to my computer, keep in mind a budget of about $500. Thanks

For the type of recording you're talking about, you don't need USB or Firewire and you don't need a preamp. A simple soundcard will work, but you'll want to stay away from the card built into your computer.

Check out the new E-MU 0404 sound card. It will more than fulfill your needs and it's only $99. It has a bunch of FX built in like reverb, chorus, delay, etc. and sounds far and away better than other soundcards in that price range.

You should probably also pick up a small mixer. Get a Behringer (yes a Behringer -- don't listen to the naysayers, they're jaded and/or ill-informed), probably a UB802, $50 or less, which has two mic inputs and will allow you to play guitar and sing. The E-MU will let you record them to two separate tracks.

For mics the SM57 is a standard, but you might also consider investing in one of the low cost import mics. Kel Audio has a couple good sounding mics that won't break the bank.

You will also need a multitrack software app. For low budget, I'd suggest N-Track. There's a forum for it here at homerecording.com.

With all that, you should be good to go. As you get more into it, you'll want to upgrade, but this should get you started. Probably cost you about $350 - $400.

[Thurgood]

Well put.

[ibanezrocks]

thankyou for all the replies, you've explained very clearly what i would need to go record each seperate way, but what are the advantages and disadvantages of each? The usb interface way seems the easiest, and it would be nice to be able to use with different computers (since I have two here) but does it get as good of results?

[philpereira]

i would argue that it does get good results

http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=483544&T=2139 here's a song I recorded with the mobilepre usb, which you can judge for yourself. i'm still learning how to produce music, but i consider this a fair example of what this device can do. it's definitely easy to use (in my opinion) and like you said is good when you want to use different computers. also, if you're just recording yourself and not a band, anything over 2 channels is a bit of overkill in my mind. if you need to do more, then i would recommend something other than this device.

[acorec]

Originally Posted by robgb

For the type of recording you're talking about, you don't need USB or Firewire and you don't need a preamp. A simple soundcard will work, but you'll want to stay away from the card built into your computer.

Check out the new E-MU 0404 sound card. It will more than fulfill your needs and it's only $99. It has a bunch of FX built in like reverb, chorus, delay, etc. and sounds far and away better than other soundcards in that price range.

You should probably also pick up a small mixer. Get a Behringer (yes a Behringer -- don't listen to the naysayers, they're jaded and/or ill-informed), probably a UB802, $50 or less, which has two mic inputs and will allow you to play guitar and sing. The E-MU will let you record them to two separate tracks.

For mics the SM57 is a standard, but you might also consider investing in one of the low cost import mics. Kel Audio has a couple good sounding mics that won't break the bank.

You will also need a multitrack software app. For low budget, I'd suggest N-Track. There's a forum for it here at homerecording.com.

With all that, you should be good to go. As you get more into it, you'll want to upgrade, but this should get you started. Probably cost you about $350 - $400.

One change here would be to look into the Yamaha MG series of mixers. Yamaha have waaay better QC, better sounding pre-amps and .....well.... better everything else. Every person I have recommended this series of mixers has been happy with them and they have owned the Behringers before. Look into it.

[robgb]

Originally Posted by acorec

One change here would be to look into the Yamaha MG series of mixers. Yamaha have waaay better QC, better sounding pre-amps and .....well.... better everything else. Every person I have recommended this series of mixers has been happy with them and they have owned the Behringers before. Look into it.

In the spirit of fellowship -- since acorec and I can't seem to agree on other matters -- I'd agree that you'd probably be better off with the Yamaha line, but you'll have to spend a little more.

[Reggie]

Yeah, I would stick with the SM57. Hard to go wrong with that as a first mic. Let us know about the computer you plan on using to record so we can advise you better.
I would take a look at the EMU soundcard stuff if I were you. I think one of them with the breakout box even has preamps that aren't that bad when compared to the Yamaha and Behri stuff.
N-track is about the best cheap program you will find.
But don't think this is going to be the last recording stuff you will ever buy.....

[ibanezrocks]

Thankyou for all the replies, I plan on going to a couple stores this weekend, and will mostly look at usb interfaces and recording programs as I still have to choose a recording program, I'm look for something that doesn't have tons of features, but rather does a good job of the ones it has.

[ibanezrocks]

another question: does it matter if I'm running Windows XP?

also what looks better of these two:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/701368/
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/703606/

[robgb]

Either of these units looks fine, but I frankly think you're making a mistake buying a USB module. I think you're better off with a dedicated sound card. I say that, however, with little or no experience with USB audio interfaces. My experience with USB in general (drives and the like) is that it's slower than internal hardware.

But if mobility is a real concern, then by all means go USB. An alternative (and no, I'm not a shill for the company) is E-MU's new laptop audio interface, which uses a card and a breakout box. I saw it demoed at NAMM and it looks pretty hot. Don't know the price.

Also, as to the recording software, again, at the lower price range you can do no better than N-Track. And it has a ton of features.

[noisedude]

The E-Mu 0404 isn't "far and away" the best-sounding card in the price range. It's certainly one to look at amongst others, but it only has the same converters as the Audigy cards ... and I certainly wouldn't put them in a higher league than the M-Audio options, unless it was a lower league.

The various USB/Firewire solutions look like they can be good to get everything in one box. The Behringer BCA2000 is an interesting new addition to that market. But I don't like the idea of getting tied into the onboard preamps on an interface. Better to get the converters and the preamps separately, IMO, because you have the choice to upgrade either in future.

If it was me, I'd be buying an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 (superior driver stability to the E-Mu) and a Yamaha MG10/2 mixer (closer to the Mackies than the Behringers ... the Behringers suck balls in every respect and believe me I've owned more than one of them, and am not some kinda gear snob pro user).

As for mics ... it depends what you want. For guitar cabs, SM57 is the obvious option but there are various older mics such as Shure 545s, Beyerdynamic Soundstar MkIIs etc that can be had for peanuts on ebay. The road I took was to get a couple of those (those exact two mics, actually) and save money for a condenser or two for vocals/acoustics/drums etc.

YMMV!

[robgb]

Guess we'll have to disagree. As far as I'm concerned, the 0404 blows the Audiophile out of the water. In fact, the 0404 is what REPLACED the Audiophile on one of my boxes.

As for the Berry mixers, I agree that you'll probably be better off with the Yamahas, but they certainly DON'T suck balls. Then again, wouldn't that be a GOOD thing?

[acorec]

Originally Posted by robgb

In the spirit of fellowship -- since acorec and I can't seem to agree on other matters -- I'd agree that you'd probably be better off with the Yamaha line, but you'll have to spend a little more.

Well.........I will say that 1n 1997 I bought a mixer that was a Behringer MX8000. It was a complete knockoff copy of the Mackie 24/48 channel 8 bus board.

I will say to this day that the MX8000 was a great board both in sound and function. Very nicely built. I really liked that board and would recommend it to anyone.

Fast Forward to 2005. I heard and played with the small Behringer mixers (not the MX9000 big board). I can say that they have nothing in common whatsoever with the Behringer big boards. They sound really funky, are noisy and have no headroom on the pre-amps. I think Behringer has (had to) hit the floor in quality and cheapness of components to hit that pricepoint.

To be fair, I have no idea if the MX9000 is as good as the pre-lawsuit MX8000 board. At one time in it's miserable life, Behringer actually made some decent equipment.

[noisedude]

Originally Posted by robgb

As for the Berry mixers, I agree that you'll probably be better off with the Yamahas, but they certainly DON'T suck balls. Then again, wouldn't that be a GOOD thing?

Err ... good point. We need a new phrase for that then

My point on the Behringer mixers is that the Yamahas are very very similar money but in a different league in terms of build quality, sound and documentation. I'm just a little home user but when I went from UB1204 --> MG10/2 --> Soundcraft M12, I noticed two big hikes in my sound quality, and two drops in my noise floor. YMMV, of course!!

[robgb]

Originally Posted by noisedude

My point on the Behringer mixers is that the Yamahas are very very similar money but in a different league in terms of build quality, sound and documentation. I'm just a little home user but when I went from UB1204 --> MG10/2 --> Soundcraft M12, I noticed two big hikes in my sound quality, and two drops in my noise floor. YMMV, of course!!

You mention soundcraft. What do you think of the lowcost Compact 4?

[noisedude]

I haven't used it. It looks like a different take on a micromixer, interesting layout and routing. The 'E' series look great cosmetically but I can't see them trumping the MGs easily ... the 'M' series was a big step up for me, as I say.

[ibanezrocks]

anymore suggestions for recording software?

[noisedude]

I think Tracktion is a lot of fun. I have Cubase VST 5.0 and stopped using it because Tracktion is a much more efficient process for me (and I didn't need some of the features in Cubase). If you're just doing multitrack recording and applying FX etc, Tracktion is very easy to use.

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by ibanezrocks

anymore suggestions for recording software?

I am very happy with Cubase SE, which can be had for $75-$100 US. It has everything I need or might need in the near future and is fairly intuitive to use. Cakewalk Guitar Tracks or Home Studio are comparable, imo. Kristal is free and pretty bare bones, but I've never tried it. Someone will probably recommend powertracks, so I'll save him the trouble.

[philpereira]

haha, yeah ive never seen anyone else recommend that program. anyway, i love audition and i've used it forever. i really do want to try getting into cubase or something more powerful, but i'm just dumb when it comes to that lol audition is the easiest of all the programs (i think) and has a number of useful tools. try out a few demos and see for yourself.

[noisedude]

Audition? Seriously? I was throwing full wine bottles at my computer when I had to use it for coursework. I've never used a more cantankerous piece of software - nothing works how you expect it to, and there seems to be little or no system to how it actually does work!

I hated it.