How to get to CD volume

[pandx]

Pardon me guys, if I may sound like a newbie here, cos' I'm indeed new to mixing.

I've just got my mixes done, however when I burnt the final mixdown to an audio CD to listen to, the volume is quite soft. On my hi-fi, normal audible level is set to 18 whereas my CD has to be pumped up to 30 to attain the same audible level. Someone please help me!

Is compression the solution? Dun wanna make my music sound over-compressed though...

[pweaver]

What type of medium / gear / format did you record on?
Analog or digital?

[4-Man Takedown]

Generally high volume mixes are greated with limiting in the mastering stage, but to do this correctly you usually need to have some skill at the craft in order to get it as loud as commercial stuff. But yes, compression, EQ, and I'm sure other stuff can be involved as well.

[Chibi Nappa]

Originally Posted by 4-Man Takedown

Generally high volume mixes are greated with limiting in the mastering stage, but to do this correctly you usually need to have some skill at the craft in order to get it as loud as commercial stuff. But yes, compression, EQ, and I'm sure other stuff can be involved as well.

It's got to do with alot more than mastering alone. Pre-mastered pro mixes I've heard are pretty darn loud. Mastering makes them louder, but it's not like it works miracles or anything. You need to record the correct sounds and arrange the right parts. You need a polished mix and you probably need some (or alot) of compression on each track. Unfortunatly there is no quick answer. This is "read-a-whole-book-take-a-whole-class-gain-years-of-experiance territory.

[ecktronic]

When mastering i apply EQ first. Then i limit and normalise. Then i compress. and finally boost to volume the wave can handle. If for say you limit first then EQ then compress, you will find that parts of the wave werent compressed as the attack time wasnt fast enough to catch those parts. (you wont a slow attack time for compression at mastering stage to squash the wave down a bit or you will hear it rise and fall in volume instead of a constant volume) There will be parts of the wave that stick out too much to get the level you want, so you will have to limit again, but this could destroy your mix. So in my opinion (in a digital world anyway with plug ins) always EQ first. Small adjustments to EQ can be made afterwards if really needed, but only by taking EQ away not adding EQ. If adjusments are needed though, best starting from scratch. So when mastering make a back up of each stage ie after EQ after compression etc. so you can easily go back to that stage.

[Chibi Nappa]

Originally Posted by ecktronic

When mastering i apply EQ first. Then i limit and normalise. Then i compress. and finally boost to volume the wave can handle. If for say you limit first then EQ then compress, you will find that parts of the wave werent compressed as the attack time wasnt fast enough to catch those parts. (you wont a slow attack time for compression at mastering stage to squash the wave down a bit or you will hear it rise and fall in volume instead of a constant volume) There will be parts of the wave that stick out too much to get the level you want, so you will have to limit again, but this could destroy your mix. So in my opinion (in a digital world anyway with plug ins) always EQ first. Small adjustments to EQ can be made afterwards if really needed, but only by taking EQ away not adding EQ. If adjusments are needed though, best starting from scratch. So when mastering make a back up of each stage ie after EQ after compression etc. so you can easily go back to that stage.

I'd watch out here. Compressing has a huge effect on the overall eq of a song. Doesn't make much sense to EQ first and then compress because the compression will change all of that carefull EQ work you just did.

Also, why do you normalize twice? You have limit->normalize->compress->normalize. Doesn't make sense to me...

[ecktronic]

I suppose i could do EQ - compress - limit - normalise - boost, but then i would have to use very different compression settings. My way makes it easier for me in the plug in world. I dont hear a difference before and after compression so its not changing the eq in a big enough way to notice. I dont use alot of compression anyway. Maybe i would use more compression if i had an outboard stereo tube compressor or something.

[bblackwood]

Originally Posted by Chibi Nappa

Doesn't make much sense to EQ first and then compress because the compression will change all of that carefull EQ work you just did.

And yet many mastering engineers (including me) do this every day...

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by bblackwood

And yet many mastering engineers (including me) do this every day...

Don't listen to this quack he only has 30 posts

[Ethan Winer]

Pandx,

> when I burnt the final mixdown to an audio CD to listen to, the volume is quite soft. <

See my review of the Peak Slammer program from EQ magazine. This unassuming and inexpensive little plug-in does exactly what you need:

www.ethanwiner.com/peakslammer.html

--Ethan

[Cloneboy Studio]

If you are doing it yourself--Waves L2 Limiter will give you all the volume you'll ever need.

[pandx]

Thanks guys for all the help.

to pweaver,

I'm recording on an 01V digital mixer connected to a 002 rack. Format is usually at 24-bit, 44.1kHz at the recording stage, but I dither it down to 16-bit before burning to audio CDs.

I've heard of the wonders Waves L2 can do to your mix, however it's a "little" bit out of my budget...

Peak Slammer is something new to me, sounds like just what I need. Going to try out the demo now and let you guys know of the results soon..

[peopleperson]

Originally Posted by Cloneboy Studio

If you are doing it yourself--Waves L2 Limiter will give you all the volume you'll ever need.

I second that.

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by pandx

I've heard of the wonders Waves L2 can do to your mix, however it's a "little" bit out of my budget...

The L2 can do A LOT of things to your mix but..."wonders" isn't one of the adjectives I'd use to describe it. YMMV

[pweaver]

Hey Pandx . . .

Ok you and I are in the pro tools world . . . cool. I'll tell you exactly how I get
clean, clear fairly slamming volume out of local artists I record who NEVER have
a budget for mastering.

Mind you . . . having a pro master the music is always preferred, but for those
who have zero budget . . . here are the steps I use.

Firstly, my personal observation . . . Waves L1 and L2 must be used VERY
judiciously or I hear noticable distortion occuring.
Secondly . . . I NEVER use either of these plugins for the purpose gaining
volume per se . . . I use the L2 as a true brick wall limiter to prevent
overs while cranking up the master fader as hot as possible, WITHOUT distortion.
I found that I dont push the L2 beyond about 3 db of limiting the
peaks only. I set the output ceiling to -.3 and I leave the threshold at zero.

1. Mix your song in PTLE and dont dither. On your master fader strap Waves L2.
Threshold = 0 Ceiling = -.3 no dithering. Dont use bounce to disk.
Run your stereo master fader out digitally into the 01V and then digitally back
into PTLE on a new stereo track (NO D to A CONVERSION).
Push the master fader to the point that the L2 is hitting about 3db of gain reduction
at the most, on the peaks only . . . if you're hearing
distortion pull the master fader back. Mind you, we are not going for volume
yet... that comes later. Right now we are just trying to get the print reasonably
strong and "kissing" the meter at about 3db of limiting on the peaks.
Let the mix finish printing onto the new stereo track.

2. Create a brand new blank session in PTLE and import the new stereo track
you just created from the original session (ie - if the name of the song is Joe's Song,
I call this new session "Joe's Song - Mastering" just to keep it straight).
Put your compression of choice onto the stereo mix track . . .
I tend to use either Waves Renaissance compressor set to the factory preset
of Mastering opto soft . . . and adjust the threshold to
where it's sounding smooth but not sonically standing out or unpleasant, less is usually more.

3. Create a master fader for this session along with another new blank stereo
track. Set the output of you song track and your master fader to the same digital output.
Set the input of the new stereo track to whichever digital in
appropriate for routing the mix out of PTLE and back in to print onto the new
track. I do this because it allows me to avoid PT bounce to disk.
Put an L2 on the master fader with the same settings as earlier.
Now with your blank stereo track armed to record, play back the song and start to crank up
the output of the Ren comp on the mix track. Try to avoid hitting the yellow light at the top
of the plugin. You can also try cranking the fader on the track up.
You should notice that you can get several more db of volume showing up on the meters
of the new blank track. The Ren comp is smoothing the peaks and your gain structure is
allowing for a hotter print. Just be careful of too much limiting on the L2 or it will distort.

Now . . . I realize mastering engineers will rip me a new one for recommending
this . . . but for those situations where you're recording the garage band next door
and they owe you money as it is, much less having money for mastering . . .
I've found that this procedure yields clean, clear volume increase that may not be
exactly as loud as the major label stuff, but can get pretty close to those volumes without distorting the mix.
Ok there it is . . . please dont flame me for this . . . just trying to share my
two cents worth for what I have found works in a pinch.

[LI_Slim]

This guy makes great and very inexpensive limiting plug ins. For most of us (i.e. not professional engineers) this is all you need:

http://www.db-audioware.com/dbl.htm

[xfinsterx]

Originally Posted by peopleperson

I second that.

After using the UAD Precision Limiter, my L2 & L3 are both jealous.