Got a new subwoofer. Please check my mix.

[Rickson Gracie]

http://www.armlock.com/idea2.mp3

Its not a complete song but I am experimenting with my new subwoofer (M-Audio BSX) with my Wharfadale 8.1 monitors.

Before I got the sub i had nasty low end issues in my mixes. Hopefully theyll be better now.

Does anyone else feel they get better mixes (especially in the lows) with a subwoofer?

[LemonTree]

yeah sounds great with a sub


Without one it lacks bass. I burned as is to CD and listened in the car and the bass is really burried. Turn your sub down. Listen to commercial CDs and get the ballance right first. Training your ear to a new system takes time. I suggest 20 hours minimum listening to commercial CDs to get acustomed to your new expanded bass depth. Remember the real world people witn no sub that's gonna listen

Alec

[pSt]

Great sound, but I agree that it lacks some bass.

I like the song as well, it's really cool and relaxed. What kind of guitar amp did you use?

[Rickson Gracie]

ok, im going to turn it down. thanks!

thats a stock blues jr. with a gibson les paul jr DC faded with P90s that i picked up new for $599 a couple of months ago. i love the sound with the blue jr. no pedals.

[Rickson Gracie]

ok, i lowered the sub and i remixed it. please let me know if its better. thanks!

[bleyrad]

bass is still very buried.


it sounds like the problem is that all your bass sound is in the less-than-80Hz range, where most consumer speakers are very weak. you need to EQ to balance your bass harmonics so that it sounds right regardless of whether or not the listener is using crappy speakers.

here's a good idea: occasionally check your mix by putting an 80Hz highpass over the whole thing. if the mix balance changes considerably, or you can't hear the bass anymore, you've got problems. the mix should sound the same, you just shouldn't be able to feel the bass in your chest anymore.

[mshilarious]

What is your room like? Once you add a sub, you really have to pay attention to room acoustics.

[Rickson Gracie]

thanks guys...here is a nother try at the same mix.

http://www.armlock.com/pb2.mp3

I adjusted the angle and distance of the speakers and adjusted the crossovers on the sub.

thanks.

by the way the sub is up againstthe wall sideways. i wonder if thats an issue.

[Rickson Gracie]

thanks bleyrad for that tip. i am using pro tools le. i guess i would just make a master fader track and add the eq plugin to that and then occaionally check that with that track?

[trybalfish]

Originally Posted by Rickson Gracie

http://www.armlock.com/idea2.mp3

Its not a complete song but I am experimenting with my new subwoofer (M-Audio BSX) with my Wharfadale 8.1 monitors.

Before I got the sub i had nasty low end issues in my mixes. Hopefully theyll be better now.

Does anyone else feel they get better mixes (especially in the lows) with a subwoofer?

You shouldnt even MIX with a subwoofer. thats a horrible thing to do. You should be mixing on very flat EQ's speakers. Adding a subwoofer to your hardware is just faking you in to thinking theres alot of bass going on.
BAD thing to do man!

[Rickson Gracie]

my wharfedale pro 8.1s have no bottom end i need to make up for it. my mixes were very bass heavy.

why wouldnt i be able to have a flat sound with a sub? if it just fills in the whole of the bottom end it shouldnt matter...right? i need to have some sense of bass. its part of the mix too.

i am in the process of using an spl meter to hopefuly correct some problems. as long as the lower frequencies are as flat as the rest of the frequences i dont see the problem.

am i wrong?

[deepwater]

You can use a sub as mentioned above your just going to have to work with the volume of it. From what I'm hearing in your mixes you need your sub set where you only know its on when you turn it off. You just want bass support not "quad" in your studio. You can use your DAW to RTA your room and can pick a Behringer ECM8000 referance mic for around $50.00. There are cheap RTA shareware programs all over the web if you don't have on in PT.

[trybalfish]

yes the bass is definitly part of the mix, but I think you need to understand the meaning of a "flat" sound when you mix. yes most studios use 3 different sets of speakers. You definitly want to hear your music through different types of audio players. car. home stereo.ipod/wlakman. whatever. it will sound different on each one, but the trick is to get the mix to sound the best you can on all. Throiwng a sub-woofer into your gear for mixing down, is personally something ive never seen or heard of. but to each his own

[Rickson Gracie]

Originally Posted by trybalfish

Throiwng a sub-woofer into your gear for mixing down, is personally something ive never seen or heard of. but to each his own

i see subs for sale all the time that are used specifically for DAW monitors including my M-audio SBX.

[gtrman_66]

I have been googling and searching to no avail, but if I remember right, a good rule of thumb for setting up a sub in a system is to run pink noise through one monitor and the sub and shoot for a 6db difference at your listening position. For example, if you have 85db with both on, and drop to 79 db with the sub only with the SPL meter in the same spot, you'll be pretty close to where you need to be.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by trybalfish

Throiwng a sub-woofer into your gear for mixing down, is personally something ive never seen or heard of. but to each his own

Hello Trybalfish:

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but before you paint with such a broad brush, you may want to do a little research. We have thousands of users, using our monitoring systems for tracking, mixing & mastering of both stereo and 5.1 audio (music, post, multi-media, TV etc). These include high-profile users, such as Skywalker Sound, (50+ systems), ESPN, Emil Berliner Studios (Mastering SACD and DVD/A for Universal Music / Deutsche Grammophon, Decca, Phillips etc), Tom Lord-Alge - three-time Grammy award winning mixer for such artist as Avril Lavigne, Blink 182, Switchfoot, Marilyn Manson and Weezer, among many many others.

All of these users use systems that include a subwoofer, which is an integral part of all of our monitoring systems.

Having said that, adding a subwoofer to "any old speaker" can be tricky. The key is proper system design, that doesn't treat subwoofers as an after thought. Additionally, what is also critical is proper system calibration.

For more information visit -
www.abluesky.com/fullrange (our 2.1 / 5.1 system design philosophy)
www.abluesky.com/calibration (calibration information along with test signals)
www.abluesky.com/subplacement (sub placement guide)
www.abluesky.com (user stories, forums and other information)

I hope some of this helps...

Cheers!

[Rickson Gracie]

Originally Posted by gtrman_66

I have been googling and searching to no avail, but if I remember right, a good rule of thumb for setting up a sub in a system is to run pink noise through one monitor and the sub and shoot for a 6db difference at your listening position. For example, if you have 85db with both on, and drop to 79 db with the sub only with the SPL meter in the same spot, you'll be pretty close to where you need to be.

Thats interesting. im going to try that. thanks.

[Middleman]

Originally Posted by Rickson Gracie

Does anyone else feel they get better mixes (especially in the lows) with a subwoofer?

Yes, I get better mixes with my sub.

Your bass is fine by the way. Not distinct but EQ was about right.

[gtrman_66]

Originally Posted by Rickson Gracie

Thats interesting. im going to try that. thanks.

Don't take it as gospel, I remember reading that in an article a while back when I was thinking of adding a sub, but I'll be damned if I can find it now. My memory may be flawed, so use at your own risk

[Middleman]

A subwoofer is mandatory for nearfeilds that are 6 inches or smaller. There is no way to accurately mix under 200Hz without one.

I would say if you have 8 inches and up, you could do without one, but not all speakers have a detailed low end so you have to pick and chose carefully. Also, go for front ported speakers and you will be reducing your need for a sub.

[deepwater]

Originally Posted by Middleman

A subwoofer is mandatory for nearfeilds that are 6 inches or smaller. There is no way to accurately mix under 200Hz without one.

I would say if you have 8 inches and up, you could do without one, but not all speakers have a detailed low end so you have to pick and chose carefully. Also, go for front ported speakers and you will be reducing your need for a sub.

I Almost agree.. but with 5" monitors and smaller and the 6" could use a little support if your doing alot of bassey music

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Rickson Gracie

Thats interesting. im going to try that. thanks.

Try using our test tones. They are used by many people, with all kinds of monitors, with great success.

www.abluesky.com/calibration

Cheers!

[ecktronic]

Yeah if the speakers are big enough then there shouldnt be any real need for a sub in my opinion. If award wining mixers use them there must be something good about using them, but if you also have accurate large speakers with a properly treated room then your jamin anyway.

[Rickson Gracie]

thanks bluesky!

[Middleman]

Pascal Sijen, thanks for the link. I used your tones and calibrated my monitors tonight. Wow! What a difference. I was running my soundcard at too low a volume and my speakers too high resulting in a mirky image.

After running the tests at your site, well, I feel like I'm mixing on new monitors.

Thanks.