semi-pro mastering = distortion on the radio

[crosstudio]

i've co-wrote and produced a single that a couple of college (like WHUR) and public (like WPFW) radio stations are playing in the DC/MD/VA area.

i haven't gotten any complaints from the DJ's spinning it, or the people who I know have heard it, but i can hear a certain bit of distortion when its played on the radio that i don't hear from the CD when listening in the car, or home stereo. i know that radio stations further compress the sound, so i'm assuming that i have no more signal left to compress without distortion.

my concern is that since i've got "semi-pro" gear (and i use that term loosely) maybe i need to back off on trying to make my CD just as "hot" as the pros because obviously i can't get there.

has anyone else who "self-masters" noticed this problem?

[bigwillz24]

I read about this somewere.
Bob Katz was explaing the "myth" of Mastering for Radio.

Basically he said just get a good mix and don't worry about trying to make the cd hotter.

Since the radio station is gonna compress and raise the levels anyway.

Your mix will sound just as good as the others overs the air maybe better because you will still have the dynamics left in your music rather than you compressing it down yourself then the radio station compressing it down even more causing the distortion you described.

[masteringhouse]

How does your CD compare to commercial CDs?

If it's hotter than most, definitely back it down. There could possibly be other reasons for distortion such as EQ. For example if there are a lot of sub-frequencies raising havoc with the radio station's compressors/limiters that are inaudible in a car radio. Might also be issues in phasing. Hard to answer without hearing both and the type of distortion.

Also check on what the radio station might be doing to your CD. A few years back I found a radio station that was copying some material for a local band to carts, and doing a bad job of it.

Cool lthat you're getting radio play!

[In Tune Audio]

First a disclaimer. I am not a mastering engineer or an expert in mastering by any means.

When I was first starting out, I was recording a rap project for some local guys. Gave them some rough mixes. But I had just bought Wavelab and thought I would try out some mastering just so the levels would be a little hotter and more like a finished product for them. Used some compression and eq, and put a limiter at the end, so the material was not peaking. Sounded decent for rough mixes. Tried it on some other stereos in the car and such. Sounded fine no problem. Was at a party with these guys, and the cd got put on, in a small hi fi sort of system. They had the volume cranked, just like it was with all the other cds, but there was tonnes of distortion on our cd. Turn it down wasn't a problem.

Went back to what I did in Wavelab, and realized, that even though the end product wasn't peaking, and the average level wasn't too high, a couple of the plugins I had earlier in the chain were clipping just a little. Not audible at low levels, but once blasted it was a audible. Made some slight changes so there was no clipping, was able to get a hotter average level, and no distortion at loud volumes.


Don't know if the same thing might be happening with the FM compressors boosting your level.

[Farview]

Phase is a big issue with FM radio. FM stereo is broadcast as 2 channels, but it isn't left and right, is it mono and side info. Just like mid-side micing, it is decoded by your radio. The side info is all your out of phase information, if you have too much, it will overload that channel and goofy stuff will happen as it is decoded.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Farview

Phase is a big issue with FM radio. FM stereo is broadcast as 2 channels, but it isn't left and right, is it mono and side info. Just like mid-side micing, it is decoded by your radio. The side info is all your out of phase information, if you have too much, it will overload that channel and goofy stuff will happen as it is decoded.

Actually a little more complicated than that.

See:
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1507392

[Farview]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

Actually a little more complicated than that.

See:
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1507392

Yes, but I didn't have an article to point to, my typing is slow, and no one would read a 2000 word disertation on the way FM is encoded and all the goofy things that could possibly happen to audio in the process.

What part of what I said was misleading?

[HangDawg]

I'd like to know more about what the do's and don'ts are when your stuff will be played on the radio. The only thing I've done so far was a beer commercial that had a local band who won a contest on it. The radio did some weird shit to it in certain parts. It started off with a hip-hoppy bass and wah guitar part with some voice-over. That part sounded pretty good. Then it kicked in with a fairly heavy riff with the entire band and the whole thing got kind of shitty. I didn't really squash the crap out of it either. Albeit, there were significantly less dynamics in the second portion.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Farview

Yes, but I didn't have an article to point to, my typing is slow, and no one would read a 2000 word disertation on the way FM is encoded and all the goofy things that could possibly happen to audio in the process.

Jeez Farview you sure are defensive today!

That's cool. Just want to make certain the post was 100% accurate. You had me re-thinking!

[bblackwood]

If I may, chew on this...

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by bblackwood

If I may, chew on this...

As if you need permission!

[Farview]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

Jeez Farview you sure are defensive today!

That's cool. Just want to make certain the post was 100% accurate. You had me re-thinking!

Sorry, must be the SRS.

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by bblackwood

If I may, chew on this...

Well, I guess that's what happened to my commercial. The beginning was clean with lots of dynamics and the end was your typical heavy metal mix. What really sucked was the fact that half sounded ok then it fell appart. It was really noticeable.

[crosstudio]

ok. thanks. so the answer is...

back off on the peak limiter a bit in the main mix.