are monitors a must?

[oh_the_blood]

i am soon buying a home studio set up that includes
a fostex vf80 ex with cd burner
studio projects b1 mic

and i have behringer head phones and old audio technica speakers that are hooked up to a power amp that powers my record player, could i possibly use both of those as monitors?

[noisedude]

Yes, but no.

Ha!

Headphones can be good for spotting problems with your mix but you will get a funny sound if you mix on them...usually the bottom end will be either way too much or way too little depending on the phones you're using!

Just got my first set of monitors and I can hear things I never knew existed now! It's not always a pleasant experience!

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by oh_the_blood

i have behringer head phones and old audio technica speakers that are hooked up to a power amp that powers my record player, could i possibly use both of those as monitors?

If that's all you got, then use it for now til you can afford monitors. Try and mix so it sounds good in your car, or wherever it is you listen to your fav music. Try and make your mix sound like your fav cds.

[JKestle]

even after you get monitors, if you don't have a decent room to listen in, you're gonna have to check mixes in your car anyways.....

[mixmkr]

nothing wrong with using headphones, if you know how they will translate on other systems. You'll probably get a slew of responses with an overwhelming response of people saying you can't use headphones to mix on, but I find they are probably the people that don't know how they will translate and aren't used to it because they come from the camp that says you can't do such a thing. phooeey to them!!. You can hear great detail, and all that other stuff via headphones. Infact, for crucial editing, I much prefer headphones. When using effects and stuff like reverb is where judging amounts over headphones becomes tricky. However, there are some lousy headphones just like lousy speakers. An inexpensive pair such as the popular Sony MDR7506 are great for mixing.

[Rokket]

I've gotten similar advice on using headphones. Most from people I respect, so respect their opinion and believe them to be right. The only question I have about headphones is if you are not supposed to use them, and most industry pros don't use them, why do they sell headphones that are labelled "studio monitors"? I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this question has always bothered me.

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by Rokket

I've gotten similar advice on using headphones. Most from people I respect, so respect their opinion and believe them to be right. The only question I have about headphones is if you are not supposed to use them, and most industry pros don't use them, why do they sell headphones that are labelled "studio monitors"? I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this question has always bothered me.

Cuz they are used in radio and tv studios, and also for people to monitor themselves while they record.

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by hasbeen

Cuz they are used in radio and tv studios, and also for people to monitor themselves while they record.

Thank you! Question cleared up!

[oh_the_blood]

i figured id make a cd of it, and listen to it everywhere,
and i have also heard, that the bass can be turned way up when using headphones, so id keep it nice and mid. any suggestions on cheap monitors, cheapest but best quality

[noisedude]

Run a search on here! There's about a jillion threads about that question!!

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by mixmkr

nothing wrong with using headphones, if you know how they will translate on other systems. You'll probably get a slew of responses with an overwhelming response of people saying you can't use headphones to mix on, but I find they are probably the people that don't know how they will translate and aren't used to it because they come from the camp that says you can't do such a thing. phooeey to them!!.

I'm one of the ones who advocates NOT using headphones for mixing, and I've provided concrete reasons for my opinion many times already... so phooeey to you, right back!

It's not that one can't use them as such, it's that it's very difficult to do so and get good results. Hard enough for experienced engineers, so it's even worse for novices.... why make a hard task that much harder - especially for those who haven't even developed ears yet?

As far as for purposes other than mixing - naturally, headphones are useful tools.

Headphone Mixing Article --> Whad'ya Mean I Can't Mix With Headphones????

[something cool]

You have to consider that when you're monitoring with headphones, you're not getting the same imaging that you are when monitoring with speakers. With headphones, everything output through the left channel only goes to your left ear, and everything right channel only goes to your right ear. With speakers, both ears are hearing both channels in addition to all the room reflections that are negated when using headphones. Panning is greatly emphasized when mixing on cans. There is also a certain amount of natural phase interference when listening in a room through speakers due to various sound waves bouncing all around your listening space which is lost when using headphones.

Can you do it? Sure, with a lot of practice and comparitive listening. But the general rule is that when you're mixing with headphones, you're really mixing FOR headphones, because the majority of headphone mixes sound really weird when listened to over speakers. I'm not saying that you have to run out and buy monitors right this second (though they are quite beneficial), but from my own personal experiences, I find it much easier to come up with a decent mix using really crappy speakers than I do using my $100 pair of headphones.

[oh_the_blood]

so should i get like a shitty pair of edirols?

[noisedude]

Err .. no ... unless you really have no way of saving for anything better. Even the M-Audio BX5s would be a step up from the Edirol range.

[Kore]

If you ask me (which I now you didn't do directly), both are necessary to ensure a good product, regardless of whether pro's use headphones or not. Remember that some people will listen to your recordings through a stereo system in a car, home, etc. and some will listen through headphones. To lsiten through good monitors and sya that it's good for headphones as well is to miss a step.

Headphones are the BEST way to analyze stereo definition; they completely isolate the Left/right channels to one ear apiece. If something sounds too centered or symmetrical with headphones, then they're going to sound even more mono through speakers (usually, depending on the system). For example, if you record guitar to a mon track, it might not sound THAT bad through speakers, but when heard through headphones (which CLEARLY show how mono it is), then it sounds like shiste.

For those who think that "monitors are better than headphones, so if you have good monitors, don't use headphones," I'm afraid you are missing out on an analytical tool. Good monitors and good headphones in combination provide better access to ANY recording.

HOWEVER, make SURE that your headphones do not have some sort of gimmick like "Uber-bass enhancement." You want a FLAT freq response.

A doctor doesn't use one tool to do surgery. Why would using only monitors be better than using both? Well, it isn't.

[Drummerdude1989]

wow thats really funny cuz before i was using headphones to mix and i was like yah this sounds good, and then i went to show my drum teacher what i got later and we put it in his like boom-box thingy, and there was soooo much bass and it sounded so bad, and i had no idea why that was, and now i do, cool

[Kore]

Well, if it had TOO MUCH bass when heard through a stereo as compared to headphones, then your headphones have NOT ENOUGHT BASS. If you mix with headphones, then hear that the recording has TOO LITTLE bass on a stereo, then the headphones have TOO MUCH bass.

It's true, headphones usually don't have enough bass, so you crank it up so the bass sounds good on headphones. Then, in a car with subs, the bass almost blows your ass through your head. However, if you have a "Bass-Enhancing headphones for KILLER BOOM!"-type of headphone set, then you don't add enough bass because the phones already amplify the bass for you.

Monitors are more likely to yield a flat eq response, whereas headphones are inconsistent. But again, I stress, HEADPHONES ARE THE BEST INSTRUMENT FOR TESTING STEREO DEFINITION OR HOW WELL YOU MANAGED TO SPREAD OUT THE TRACKS THROUGHOUT THE LEFT TO RIGHT EARSPACE.

[mixmkr]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

It's not that one can't use them as such, it's that it's very difficult to do so and get good results. Hard enough for experienced engineers, so it's even worse for novices.... why make a hard task that much harder - especially for those who haven't even developed ears yet?

Because maybe they don't have the bucks to buy a decent set of monitors. For a hobbiest, whose playing and recording skills are probably going to be fairly substandard anyway, the headphones aren't going to be the weak link...you and I both know that.

I have a couple of friends recording electronica, ambient, trance..etc.. basically all samples and that kind of stuff. They do amazingly well with cans, but admittedly, I am probably blown away with their patches rather than their mixing expertise.

Drummerdude1989 is a good typical example of not really understanding how mixes potentially will relate on other systems, but yet faulting the headphones, and not the adjustments he needs to make.

and yes... I certainly agree, it is harder to mix on phones.

But..the first sentence in my original post...

originally posted by mixmkr.....see look above if you don't believe me!!!
nothing wrong with using headphones, if you know how they will translate on other systems.

[oh_the_blood]

so whats the cheapest, but quality route to go for mixing and mastering?

[mixmkr]

Originally Posted by oh_the_blood

so whats the cheapest, but quality route to go for mixing and mastering?

to rent time at a pro facility
(leave out the words "quality", "mastering", and spin the wheel again!)

[mixmkr]

Originally Posted by oh_the_blood

so whats the cheapest, route to go for mixing?

(Ok...that's what you want to ask...)
a DAW(on your home computer) and a pair of decent headphones...or some inexpensive monitors that fit in your budget, your B1 mic, a couple of cables, and any other minor items to complete the setup.