Gear question, be gentle...

[Rokket]

I am a digital home recording guy. OK, you can slap me, but wait...
When I build my studio in the next year or so, I want to either do it all analog or some sort of hybred of both, but leaning more toward analog in the mastering, mixing side. I know very little about analog, and web research is vague, so I want to ask this here:

What beyond the console am I going to need to get all this done? I know I will need a compressor, some sort of effects rack, and the usual patch cables, snakes, and what-not, but what is the usual recording chain for a completely analog system? How is is monitored?
This is asking a lot, I know, and the possibilities are probably endless. If I can just get a basic idea of what I will need and how much I should spend (right now with the building and all, I am looking at $40-$50 grand as a starter.) What can I do with that much?
Is a hybred system a good thing?
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Rokket

[Track Rat]

I'm probably the biggest (literally ) cheerleader for hybrid setups. I use an analog console with an Alesis HD24/MOTU 2408/computer. It allows me to track and mix like an analog system while using hardware devices simultainiously using plugins. Editing in the digital domain is THE BEST. You can do a first class setup with the budget you stated.

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by Track Rat

I'm probably the biggest (literally ) cheerleader for hybrid setups. I use an analog console with an Alesis HD24/MOTU 2408/computer. It allows me to track and mix like an analog system while using hardware devices simultainiously using plugins. Editing in the digital domain is THE BEST. You can do a first class setup with the budget you stated.

Thanks, Track Rat! I'll keep the HD24 in mind. I have been reading about this for awhile. The biggest thing I guess is actually getting to a studio and seeing how they are set up. They post lots of pics in the studio forum, but I need to see how the rooms are wired and how everything gets back to the control room. Maybe sometime this year....

[Track Rat]

Yeah, mine's over there somewhere. The way I have mine set up seems logical to me anyways. I suppose the only diiference between my system and a pure analog studio is the recording medium itself.
What I've done is this. I bought a 8 Buss 24 channel console. Mine's a Tascam M-3500 but the choice of console is subjective and always based on your budget and availability. My criteria was of course sound and low cost but also routing flexability, namely 8 busses and direct outputs on every channel and plenty of AUX sends and returns. This could be anything from a Mackie to a Neve. Like I said, budget and availabilty. I didn't want to depend on just the mic preamps from the console and stand alones are most always going to smoke console preamps (unless you DID go with the Neve ) so I picked up 8 channels of different stand alone mic pre's. All have a different "color" to them which is nice.
Going digital means computer, not just digital medium. The editing capabilities are what is MOST seductive to me, so this was also a must have item. BUT, in my humble opinion I hate tracking to one as it's not a fast, intuitive or stable way to do business, hence the Alesis HD24. Rock solid, intuitive to operate and did I mention ROCK SOLID? There's nothing worse than wrestling with a mouse with five musicians waiting on you to get a decent headphone mix happening. With the HD24 and an analog console it's SO easy to mix on the fly FAST which keeps the studio vibe high. And hard drives are cheap nowadays so your cost per minute is way lower than tape.
I needed a way to get those tracks in and out of the computer for editing and such so enters the MOTU 2408 mkII. I went with the MOTU but there are lots of great interfaces out there like the Hammerfall stuff and such. You can transfer stuff to and from the computer via FTP by connecting the HD24 to the computer NIC card. It's slow but it works. There are just more advantages to using an interface of some kind. The MOTU has the 24 channels of ADAT in/out that connects digitally to the HD24 plus 8 more analog ins and outs. Very cool.
Now all this stuff has to come together somehow so EVERYTHING goes to a patchbay (actually several patchbays), the savior of mankind. All the direct outputs from the console plus the 8 buss outputs, the AUX sends and returns plus LINE level inputs and the channel and mains inserts. The LINE outputs from the stand alone preamps, The inputs to the HD24. Also alll the inputs and outputs of all my outboard compressors, reverbs,delays and such (which I also dropped a ton o'loot on) and LINE ins and outs from the MOTU. This way I can connect anything to anything fast. The LINE outs from the HD24 go directly to the console.
I haven't even touched on the monitoring system but it's probably the most important part of the studio. If you can't trust what your hearing, you're screwed outa the gate. Again, budget and availability.

[analogelectric]

That is quite the undertaking... how exciting.

An analog set up is pretty easy as long as you're not intimidated by wiring it all up. I used to have 9 racks of TT 96pt patchbays that worked 80% of the time due to poor connections (wiring that many connections there's bound to be a few problems). A few years ago I dumped the patchbays and now I plug stuff in as needed.

I was strictly analog until last year and now I'm hybrid. I mix in the 'puter after importing tracks from my 2".

Here's how I have things wired:
My console is a D&R Orion 24x24x2 Split In-Line (24 channel in, 24 channel out, 2 mix).

Each channel has its own mic XLR in, line 1/4" in, monitor input, channel insert, monitor insert, and group/channel out.

My 24 track has 24 individual ins and outs (XLR).

I'll go ahead and explain how I have one channel wired as it is the same for the rest of the channels:
1) Mic XLR in - where the microphone is plugged in.
2) Line 1/4" in - where a 1/4" line in is plugged for DI or whatnot.
3) Channel Insert - where I can INSERT a compressor or gate PRE tape during tracking or INSERT POST tape during MIX mode.
4) Monitor Insert - where I can INSERT a compressor or gate POST tape.
5) Group/Channel out - this is where the Mic or Line In is send out to the tape machine track of my choosing (all levels to tape are controlled by the channel pres and line gains as designated respectively).
6) Monitor Input - Where the signal comes back POST tape through the monitor Input on designated console channel.

All channels are routed to the Mains Out (Stereo Left/Right) while individual channel control volume/EQ; much like how it is inside a computer software "mixer".

Mains Out's have several buttons for control room monitoring and two track monitoring. I have mine setup where one selection, "Control Room 1", will monitor the console mains. "Two Track A" monitors my computer's "speakers out" (i.e. I hear system sounds, modem connecting, iTunes, etc). "Two Track B" monitors analog output from my Motu HD192 only (I don't do 5.1 channel mixing so just 2 channels work fine for that app). Finally, "Two Track C" monitors my stand alone rack Otari CD burner.

Okay, whew... now when I import tracks to my 'puter I use MOTU 24 i/o, MOTU HD192, PCI424, and Nuendo 2.2.0.39

The MOTU 24 i/o has 24 analog ins and outs (just enough for me). I can either go directly out independent tracks in real-time from my 24 track, to the MOTU, and to the software program or I can have the 24 track go out to the Monitor Input on the console, out of the group/channel out, to the MOTU, and to the software. The only reason why I'd go thru my console as opposed to directly out of the 24 track is in case I'd like to add inboard/outboard influence or adjust input gain PRE MOTU.

Then when I mix I can do it one of two ways:
1) Fully inside Nuendo while monitoring the console's stereo "Two Track B" or
2) Assign each track mono out within Nuendo to individual tracks that come out of the 24 i/o and into the console's channels (much like monitoring channel tracks from the 2" 24 track as explained earlier).

I hope that wasn't too confusing. Most console manuals plus trial and error helps narrow down any headaches.

I didn't go into sub/sum/group or aux send/return cuz that would be a whole other long statement.

If you're looking for a console for tracking, make sure it has decent mic pres, individual channel phantom power, individual channel phase reverse/flip (comes in handy if you're not using a program), and db pads are nice to have as well. API, AMEK, or Trident (MPA) consoles would be my top choice. I'd much rather dump money in a good console before anything else... other than a serviceable tape machine of course.

A few retro'd mic pres can come in handy for some flavor/color but like I said I'd rather have a good console before spending money on extra mic pres, those can wait.

Outboard compressors of different types is the next thing to get. Character of compressors is a subjective issue. Some like inexpensive compressors while others opt for high end tube gear like Manley MU, UREI 1176's, or solid state AMEK 9098's (if the person can afford it). It depends on what you like and if you have no reference then start out with a couple upper end compressors or a few knock around models and one dual vanity piece. High end compressors are great for controlling volume while keeping tone integrity. Lower end consumer models have a tendency to squash tone if used heavily.

Hopefully I answered some questions you might of had.
--Adam Lazlo

[Rokket]

Thanks for taking the time and patience, guys! I really appreciate it. One question for Adam: is it important to monitor POST tape vice PRE? I know that there is always going to be some quality lost when you record anything, so is that the reason?
Thanks again. I am going to print these out and keep them for reference. The foundation for my studio should be getting poured in about 3 months, so I have a little time, but I know how fast that can go!

[DigitalSmigital]

This foundation is being poured in Japan or the Phillipines? $50 K from the ground up seems a little light? Maybe not in the Phillipines? This will be a pro set-up for renting out?

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by DigitalSmigital

This foundation is being poured in Japan or the Phillipines? $50 K from the ground up seems a little light? Maybe not in the Phillipines? This will be a pro set-up for renting out?

In the Philippines. We bought a house on a huge lot there and paid 25k cash for it. I drew up the plans awhile back and posted them in the studio forum, got some great feedback for room treatments and such, and have done a ton of reading up on it. I intend to use it mainly for my own purposes and later on get into doing other bands. I've listened to the "CD"quality stuff they produce over there, and I can already beat it with the MR-8 I have. So getting some good gear and learning my chops as an engineer, I should be able to produce some bands that will have the rest lining up and keeping me busy for years. I will be making a bundle with my "day job", and putting her together piece by piece. I am planning on retiring from federal service in 10 years, so by that time I should be ready to get this baby running.

[analogelectric]

Originally Posted by Rokket

Thanks for taking the time and patience, guys! I really appreciate it. One question for Adam: is it important to monitor POST tape vice PRE? I know that there is always going to be some quality lost when you record anything, so is that the reason?
Thanks again. I am going to print these out and keep them for reference. The foundation for my studio should be getting poured in about 3 months, so I have a little time, but I know how fast that can go!

I monitor POST tape because I want to hear what's being returned from the tape machine (or going on tape correctly). Even sometimes I'll monitor the repro head so I'm hearing it past the sync head. Also I'd be able to tell (beyond just eye-ballin' the VU meters) if I'm hitting the tape too hard and/or getting distortion where I don't want it. I listen PRE tape when bringing in a signal but once I know I'm good at the console then I listen POST during the tracking.

-- Adam Lazlo

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by analogelectric

I monitor POST tape because I want to hear what's being returned from the tape machine (or going on tape correctly). Even sometimes I'll monitor the repro head so I'm hearing it past the sync head. Also I'd be able to tell (beyond just eye-ballin' the VU meters) if I'm hitting the tape too hard and/or getting distortion where I don't want it. I listen PRE tape when bringing in a signal but once I know I'm good at the console then I listen POST during the tracking.

-- Adam Lazlo

Thanks Adam. That makes a lot of sense. I do the same thing on a smaller scale with my MR-8, I just didn't realize it. Great tips everyone. Thanks again. I'll remember you all when I send out my first master for pressing!

[DigitalSmigital]

send me airfare and I'll help break in your studio.

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by DigitalSmigital

send me airfare and I'll help break in your studio.

If I can afford it, you'd be one of the first I'd ask to do just that!

[Track Rat]

Originally Posted by Rokket

If I can afford it, you'd be one of the first I'd ask to do just that!

SHIT! Are yiou taking applications?? Have gear, will travel.

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by Track Rat

SHIT! Are yiou taking applications?? Have gear, will travel.

I will be taking applications, actually! But how many people are willing to relocate to the Philippines??? I will have to hire a sexatary, I mean receptionist, a good gear head, and definitely some good engineers (more to learn from). I think I could be quite successful there, as the market is pretty much untapped, and their talent and ability is UP there, equal to any British or American act....