Don't Buy the Wrong Quantegy Tape on eBay

[Beck]

The following is an example of deceptive or at least uninformed listings that I see now and then on eBay. The model number of this tape is not listed, so I emailed the seller and learned it is Quantegy 795, which is not audiotape at all, but instrumentation tape for scientific and industrial applications.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=5743048789

Not only does this auction have bids, but looking back at the seller's history, he/she has sold every one of these previously listed -- Sad, sad, sad.

Folks, here's the deal -- there is no "mystery tape" that is better than standard bias compatible tapes, such as Ampex/Quantegy 456/457, 406/407, etc. DO NOT RELY ON AN EBAY SELLER'S SALES PITCH AS YOUR ONLY SOURCE OF KNOWLEDGE!!! Google it for Christ sake, and see if you can verify it.

Please don't panic during this Quantegy crisis and start snapping up every roll of questionable shit (excuse my French) you see. You will only be disappointed with the whole analog experience and run back to digital with your hair on fire, never really knowing what analog can do.

Stick to standard bias compatible tapes, such as the following:

Ampex/Quantegy 456, 457, 406, 407
AGFA/BASF/EMTEC 468, 469
EMTEC/BASF 911
3M/Scotch 226, 227, 206, 207 & 966
Zonal 700
AGFA/BASF/EMTEC 526 loop-master (makes an indestructible 2-track master, but don't use for multitracking)

I don't know how else to say it -- DON"T BE A DUMBASS!

PS. I'm not making any judgments about the above seller's character or motives. It's enough to say that the recording world is full of people that don't know what they're doing.

[A Reel Person]

I won't be a dumass.
I won't be a dumass.
I won't be a dumass.
I won't be a dumass.
I won't be a dumass.
I won't be a dumass.
I won't be a dumass.
I won't be a dumass.
I won't be a dumass.
I won't be a dumass.
I won't be a dumass.

Everyone! All together, now!

I won't be a dumass!

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by Beck

The following is an example of deceptive or at least uninformed listings that I see now and then on eBay. The model number of this tape is not listed, so I emailed the seller and learned it is Quantegy 795, which is not audiotape at all, but instrumentation tape for scientific and industrial applications.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=5743048789

Not only does this auction have bids, but looking back at the seller's history, he/she has sold every one of these previously listed -- Sad, sad, sad.

Folks, here's the deal -- there is no "mystery tape" that is better than standard bias compatible tapes, such as Ampex/Quantegy 456/457, 406/407, etc. DO NOT RELY ON AN EBAY SELLER'S SALES PITCH AS YOUR ONLY SOURCE OF KNOWLEDGE!!! Google it for Christ sake, and see if you can verify it.

Please don't panic during this Quantegy crisis and start snapping up every roll of questionable shit (excuse my French) you see. You will only be disappointed with the whole analog experience and run back to digital with your hair on fire, never really knowing what analog can do.

Stick to standard bias compatible tapes, such as the following:

Ampex/Quantegy 456, 457, 406, 407
AGFA/BASF/EMTEC 468, 469
EMTEC/BASF 911
3M/Scotch 226, 227, 206, 207 & 966
Zonal 700
AGFA/BASF/EMTEC 526 loop-master (makes an indestructible 2-track master, but don't use for multitracking)

I don't know how else to say it -- DON"T BE A DUMBASS!

PS. I'm not making any judgments about the above seller's character or motives. It's enough to say that the recording world is full of people that don't know what they're doing.

Thanks for the good info Tim.

~Daniel

[kollontai77]

What about Ampex "professional audio tape", 651?
1/4 inch, 0.5mil tensilized polyester.

I hope these are alright, because I bought a pack of 12 off ebay!

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by kollontai77

What about Ampex "professional audio tape", 651?
1/4 inch, 0.5mil tensilized polyester.

I hope these are alright, because I bought a pack of 12 off ebay!

The only way to tell is to record & play the tapes several times, that is if you have no visual clues as to their condition prior to placing them on your reel recorder. If there's no problems with the tape shedding in excess, then you may have good tape, at least for now. Apparently Ampex experimented with different binder formulations and some of the tapes, few by comparison, came out pretty bad, people bought them and several years later noted that the tapes begun to disintigrate (tape shed, sticky tape etc ...). Again, that happened to only a small amount of the tapes, over a certain period of time, but Ampex fixed the problem later on. The bad news is that Ampex tapes, in general, are still not the best when it comes to long shelf life. The tapes you mention may be at least 10 years old. Not too good, at least when it comes to Ampex.

~Daniel

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by kollontai77

What about Ampex "professional audio tape", 651?
1/4 inch, 0.5mil tensilized polyester.

I hope these are alright, because I bought a pack of 12 off ebay!

I think those were instrumentation tapes and .5 mil is really thin tape. Standard and current formulations are 1.0 and 1.5 mil with 1.5 being the preferred thickness as it offers the greatest resistance to stretching and print through.

I hate to say it but I think you got took.

Cheers!

[A Reel Person]

Ampex 651 is low noise, high output audio recording tape. The base is appx .5mil, but the total thickness is closer to 1mil. Anyway, I'll post the specs, see them here:

http://www.quantegy.com/ProductGroups/Audio/600.htm

600 Series Open Reel Tape
The Industry Standard for Analog Open Reel Applications

Features

Low noise/high output formulation
Clean running performance with uniform winding properties
FerrosheenTM polished oxide surface
Balanced frequency response
Controlled conductivity minimizes static and surface contamination
Proven binder system durability
Highly durable oxide formulation and binder
Fully protective packaging
The durable oxide and binder is formulated to withstand the tensions and handling of high speed processing and is well-proven after many years of thoroughly reliable use. The base film is stretch-resistant polyester.

Tape surface conductivity is rigidly controlled to minimize static generation, aid smooth winding and maintain the inherent clean running properties.

Wound on fiberglass hubs, each bulk pancake is placed on a Styrofoam tray to maintain wind uniformity and to provide full protection during shipping and handling.

600 Series Open Reel tape offers a low noise, high output tape with improved capabilities over standard output products. The lower noise and higher output provide an improved signal-to-noise ratio. An exceptionally smooth recording surface, the result of the Quantegy FerrosheenTM process, enhances close tape-to-head contact and allows improved high frequency response.

Special attention is given during manufacture to maintain uniformity within each batch and between batches to meet the consistency needs of demanding users. Extra care is given to slitting and winding to assure that tapes will handle well at all winding speeds.


=======================================================
651 PROFESSIONAL-0.5 MIL POLYESTER, 0.6 MIL COATING THICKNESS
651-131111 AUD .25 X 1200, 5" Reel... Quarter inch tape, on 5" reel, 1200' total length
=======================================================
651
I. Physical Properties
Standard Width inches 0.246
Width Tolerance inches ±0.001
Total Thickness mils 0.90
Base Film Thickness mils 0.48
Coating Thickness mils 0.42

II. Magnetic Properties
Coercivity (Hc) Oe 270
Retentivity (Br) Gs 1100

III. Electromagnetic Properties
Bias Sensitivity @ 500 Hz dB -1.2
Record Sensitivity @ 500 Hz dB 0.0
Third Harmonic Distortion at Reference Record Level % 1.5
Record Level
Relative Output with 1 % Third Harmonic Distortion at 500 Hz dB -2.0
Output Sensitivity at:
100 Hz dB 0.0
500 Hz dB -0.5
7500 Hz dB -0.5
15000 Hz dB -2.0
Saturated Output at:
500 Hz dB -1.5
15000 Hz dB +2.0
Relative Weighted Noise
with Bias dB 0.0
Print-through dB 49.0
Signal-to-noise dB -1.5

NOTES:
1) Coercivity is the magnetic field required to reduce the magnetization of a saturated magnetic specimen to zero. The coercivity is a direct measure of the bias current requirement of a tape.

2) Retentivity is the maximum remanent magnetization possible in a magnetic material.

3) Bias Sensitivity is the difference in optimum bias between Ampex reference tape and the tape under test. Optimum bias is determined by adjusting bias for maximum output at 500 Hz.


4) Record Sensitivity is the difference in output level at 500 Hz between Ampex reference tape and the tape under test at optimum bias and reference record level. Reference record level is that input level which produces 1% third harmonic distortion on the Ampex reference tape.

5) Third Harmonic Distortion at Reference Record Level is the ratio of the third harmonic (1.5 kHz) to the fundamental (which is 500 Hz), measured at optimum bias and at reference record level.

6) Relative Output with 1% Third Harmonic Distortion is the difference in output level at 500 Hz between the tape under test and Ampex reference tape when record level is adjusted for 1% third harmonic distortion on each tape.

7) Output Sensitivity is the difference in output level between the tape under test and Ampex reference tape when record level is adjusted for 10 dB below reference record level at specified frequencies.

8) Saturated Output is a measure of the maximum output level capability of a magnetic tape. The saturation point is that point where an increase in input level will offer no further increase in output level.

9) Relative Weighted Noise with Bias is that measured noise value below the reference record level obtained with no input signal but with bias present at the record head and the output run through a weighted noise filter.

10) Print-through or layer-to-layer signal transfer, is that measured value of the signal obtained from the secondary layer, which has been transferred from the primary layer.

11) Signal-to-Noise is the algebraic sum of the relative weighted noise with bias and the relative output with 1% third harmonic distortion at 500 Hz.

... Also in this family of tapes:
Ampex 631 632 641 642 651 661

... Also known as:
600 Series Configurations - Open Reel, General Purpose, Duplicator Tapes



Cheers!!

[The Ghost of FM]

... Also known as:
600 Series Configurations - Open Reel, General Purpose, Duplicator Tapes

I'm no English scholar but what I take away from all that is that the 651 series of tapes was a formulation aimed at the home stereo user from 1965, making copies of his Slim Whitman collection on his 200 dollar POS home open reel deck.

1200 ft on a 5" reel is still thin stock and doesn't sound like an equivalent to 456 or even 406 which is a lower output formulation of 456.

It's not level or bias compliant. And, depending on the age of the stock in question in this ebay auction, sticky shed may also be a reality with this stock.

Cheers!

[A Reel Person]

It might take an engineering degree to interpret those specs, but in general, you could consider 651 a "less hot" audio tape than 456.

For instance, if your machine is calibrated for 456, as most vintage machines are, you'd hit 456 at 0VU (avg) and no more than +3VU (peak).

With 651, you could consider -3VU on your meter the "0" point, to peak no more than 0VU on the meter,... and you should be alright.

[A Reel Person]

I basically agree with GFM's assessment.

However, this user should be okay, given that 651 is not as high performance a tape as 456. It was made for simple duplication and standard audio recording, not the "Grand Master" application that 456 was developed for.

[The Ghost of FM]

If the user watches his levels and makes a downward adjustment for these tapes, they can still be usable but, if levels are to be kept lower to not over saturate the tape, the hiss levels will rise noticeably as a result so unless you're using dbx on the recorder in question, things may get this side of ugly.

Cheers and word to your momma!

[cjacek]

That is, of course, if the tapes don't fall appart ...

~Daniel

[Beck]

Yup, 651 is +1 dB level voice-grade audiotape (185 nW/m) used for dictation - that sort of thing. It is indeed 0.5 mil -- a super thin version of 641/631. I hate to be another bearer of bad news, but it is not intended for music.

For future reference, 600 series tapes ending in 1 are voice-grade. Those ending in 2 are music-grade. 642 is similar to Maxell UD 35-90.

In case you're wondering, there is no 652. 0.5 mil is just too thin for a music-grade product. 642 at 1 mil is as thin as it gets in that series for music recording.

While I'm on the subject, also stay away from so-called white-box 456 and stuff like Shamrock, which used to be sold at K-Mart. It is Ampex 031 or 041, which is "rejected" 456/406. Radio Shack "Concert Tape" is also only voice-grade (the name is just plain wrong). Radio Shack "Super Tape" is music grade and is actually not that bad, at least compared to the above. Newer tapes (since the 80's) branded as U.S. Air Force or Navy are Radio Shack Super Tape.

The list of tapes to avoid is much longer than the short list of the standards we Jedi on this board have been recommending. Stick with those.

[A Reel Person]

I've been getting the white-box "031" tape for music use, and it's been just fine.

Now, my singing, playing & recording skills need some work, but that's another post!

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

I've been getting the white-box "031" tape for music use, and it's been just fine.

Now, my singing, playing & recording skills need some work, but that's another post!

Hey, Reel! Not to jack this post, but how many times can you safely record and erase a decent tape reel before it becomes unusable due to write-through and such?

[A Reel Person]

.........

There's the Steely Dans, who run a tape once and consider it "spent".

I believe the practical use of tape is in the hundreds of plays. I know I've played some of my recordings in the hundreds of passes, with no ill effects.

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

.........

There's the Steely Dans, who run a tape once and consider it "spent".

I believe the practical use of tape is in the hundreds of plays. I know I've played some of my recordings in the hundreds of passes, with no ill effects.

You are pushing me closer and closer to an all-analog setup than you could even imagine. The expendibility of the medium was one of my biggest concerns. Looks like I have some more home work to do. Thanks!

[A Reel Person]

"God"
"Moonage Daydream"
"Long Time Gone"
"It's a Long Way Back"

... all recorded on 031 Quantegy, new tape, right out of the white box.

Tell me if it's inadequate to capture hifi audio. I'll wait.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/davemania/singles

[Herm]

Oh boy I have 18 rolls of this 5 inch 631 still in the plastic.
I have tried it on my machines and its ok for just messing around.
I mostly use it om my teac 2340. No telling what it is biased for.
I read somewhere 631 I think used to be used alot in some pro studios and that it will just about last forever. Time will tell

[Herm]

Ok just had to add some pics of my new display tables for some of my stuff.

I know Reel is just drooling cause he wishes he had this much stuff

[Rokket]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

"God"
"Moonage Daydream"
"Long Time Gone"
"It's a Long Way Back"

... all recorded on 031 Quantegy, new tape, right out of the white box.

Tell me if it's inadequate to capture hifi audio. I'll wait.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/davemania/singles

Sorry it took so long to respond. I logged off yesterday just in time to get the "honey-do" list from hell. I am at work right now, so I will listen when I can.

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by Herm

Ok just had to add some pics of my new display tables for some of my stuff.

I know Reel is just drooling cause he wishes he had this much stuff

GIMMIE!

[A Reel Person]

I wish!!!

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

I wish!!!

GIMMIE! GIMMIE!! GIMMIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~Daniel

PS: Dave, I'll reply to your email asap!

[Rokket]

Damn Reel! You need to move the exercise equipment out so you have room for more gear. I don't think there is enough in the space! LOL!