new pitches for any instrument

[Rock Star 87]

i have a simple thought, and i'd like to share it with all of u. if i played the highest note on the piano, and pitch shifted it a semitone with a conventional pitch shifter, would that create a new note, or extend the range of the conventional piano, which can already play the conventional rnage of notes. is it possible, or am i crazy.

[Rokket]

You'd probably have to ask your dog!
Seriously, try it and see what happens. I don't think it would create a "new" note, but it would definitely extend the range of an 88-key piano.

[Layla Nahar]

Originally Posted by Rock Star 87

is it possible, or am i crazy.

these are mutually exclusive?


you would extend the range of your piano *up*, of course. You'd lose stuff at the bottom, unless you used two keyboard, and depending on the range limits of your sampler ... If you pitch shifed up a semi tone from that hi C, lets see ...

7040 for that last A on the keyboard, (coz I can't remember the frequency of middle c) so to get a minor oh dur - lets get a major 3rd from that A - you'd be playing a freqency of 8800. now, that C that you want to sample, that should be 8448. If we take 6% of 8448, it comes to 8955 ... now that seems to be a bit higher than your new note, 8800, but the 6% rule is a fudge, not as accurate I think, as using the harmonc series to do your calculations to determe frequency. And at this frequency range, anyway, there are so many herz to an octave.

Uh ... you can pop me now if you want ...

[Rock Star 87]

u understand theory, and i know what ur saying. so if i could make something over 8448 vps, then theoretically, i would make a C# that is above the hypothetical range of the piano, which contains all known notes. my main question is why hasn't this been exploited already. u could basically make new notes until they left our audible frequency range. Wouldn't somebody have been able to pull it off, and why wouldn't the established music world take notice? This could shake up everything, couldn't it?

[Garry Sharp]

Yeah but who wants to hear lots of horrible screechy high notes? Clearly the 88 key range is a compromise between musical range and mechanical possibility - there's no reason in theory why it shouldn't go higher - I daresay somebody has tuned a whole piano up a tone or two in the past.

Like Rokket said, try it. Just warn us before you post the MP3

[lykwydchykyn]

Since when does a piano contain "all known notes"???? The range of MIDI notes extends far beyond the piano keyboard on both ends. Save yourself some time and pull up a piano patch and send it a C9. I guarantee you'll be thoroughly nonplussed.

[Rock Star 87]

my bad, i meant an average acoustical grand piano. anyways, my MIDI piano range is from C0 to G10, but it only plays up to C9. y is that, and how did they extend the range 2 octaves, from C7 to C9, and make it sound authentic?

[lykwydchykyn]

They pitch shifted it. That's how sampled instruments work. It sounds authentic to you? Anyway, these two extra octaves you mention are precisely what you're describing in your original posts. Have at'em. They're all yours.

Your question is like asking, "If we took the biggest number anyone has heard of, and add 1, it would be a new number, right?"

[Layla Nahar]

Originally Posted by Rock Star 87

u understand theory, and i know what ur saying. so if i could make something over 8448 vps, then theoretically, i would make a C# that is above the hypothetical range of the piano, which contains all known notes. my main question is why hasn't this been exploited already. u could basically make new notes until they left our audible frequency range. Wouldn't somebody have been able to pull it off, and why wouldn't the established music world take notice? This could shake up everything, couldn't it?

I'm sure some experimental electronic musician has done this, for exactly the reasons you describe. As far as the "established music world" is concerned, you are most likely to find something like that on college campuses. who knows, maybe some bad-ass producer has snuck it into the back of the mix on some britney or eminem track ...

[Rock Star 87]

with this in mind, why are acoustic pianos still only made with 88 keys, which doesn't even add up.

7 octaves
12 semitones each
------------------
= 84 keys

wtf are the 4 extra ones for. probly a dumb question, but just curious.

[NationalSandwic]

how big would you like them?

[Rock Star 87]

? i don't get it.

[brummygit]

so what youre sayin is you want a bigger one???

when i play the keyboard, i never really go right to the end or start of the keys. but its nice (psychologically) to know that the keys are there so i know that there's room to go if i need. but the very low and very high keys sound terrible.

just my 5 squids worth...

[Rock Star 87]

but they have been used b4. i see where ur coming from, i just have a natural yearning for more, and one note adds endless possibilities. maybe i could use it, or maybe im just 2 curious.

[bemo]

try a liltle experiment if you're that curious.

Record that last note onnthe piano (C9, C10 whatever) and then use the change pitch function of your DAW or jsut speed the bitrate up incrementally till you can't hear it any more. the average frequency range of human hearing goes up to 20kHz. The 8448 Hz that Rockstar87 arrived at is subastantially lower than that. In theory you could double that to 16896 Hz and it would still be in hearing range.

[Layla Nahar]

Originally Posted by Rock Star 87

but they have been used b4. i see where ur coming from, i just have a natural yearning for more, and one note adds endless possibilities. maybe i could use it, or maybe im just 2 curious.

bemo is right. Play around, see what you come up with.