Mic Pre Amps, really needed?

[Vin-Su]

Hi all,

I have a condenser mic which i connect to my behringer mixer (mainly for the use of the phantom power source). I have been told i should purchase a mic pre amp, but i am unsure about a few things...

A. Will it improve the quality of my recordings and why?
B. Will the new connection be.. Mic->Pre amp->mixer
C. If so where will i connect the input from the pre amp to my mixer? i.e. a line in aux etc...


many thanks...

[Kevin Deschwazi]

A. Will it improve the quality of my recordings and why?

The mixer should have its own mic preamps. I've never used a behringer board but the pres don't have a great reputation.
So a better mic pre would be an improvement. Putting a better mic pre through the behringer pre would be a waste of time, in other words bypass the mixer

B. Will the new connection be.. Mic->Pre amp->mixer

Most standalone mic pres have phantom power so you would be able to bypass the board altogether.

C. If so where will i connect the input from the pre amp to my mixer? i.e. a line in aux etc...

If for any reason you wanted to go mic-> pre-> mixer then you'd use the the mixers line ins to bypass the pres.

[Vin-Su]

Thank you for the advice, i currently have a Studio Projects B1 microphone and a Behringer Eurorack Pro-Mixer UB1622FX, would the Studio Projects C1 condenser Microphone make much of an improvment or sound quality?

many thanks

[Markd102]

The C1 wouldn't be an improvement over the B1. It will just sound different. Any percieved 'improvement' will simply mean that one will suit your current application better than the other.

[patelt78]

I'll venture to guess that at this point, instead of a mic pre, you'll get better results from learning how to use a QUALITY compressor, eq, de-esser, and reverb. I suggest spending some money on good software plugins. These plugins really shape the vocal sound, and proper use will affect the sound much more than changing from the behringer pre-amps to something like a dmp3. Of course, this is just my opinion.

[Vin-Su]

Yeah i really see that as my downfall. Not knowing enough about eq'ing and reverb. I usually record in soundforge then when done with the tracks import them to acid for mixing. Can you recommend any good plug ins for soundforge?

thanks again you guys...

[Fletcher]

It really depends on the stuff you're trying to accomplish. If you're just doing writing demos, then the least expensive stuff possible for you to get a sketch of your ideas is all you need... if you're trying to "make a record" then you best be robbing some liquor stores and getting a whole boatload of long green together if you want the product to come even close to expressing all the emotion of the performance in the presentation.

Best of luck with it.

[Vin-Su]

Advanced demo's is what i would call it. Something that can be played on radio with no noticable differences to all other music and something that can be played in clubs on loud systems.

It just takes me so much time to mix a track because i do not have a set methods or procedures.

[MadAudio]

Is there any reason you're not recording directly into Acid?

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by Vin-Su

Something that can be played on radio with no noticable differences to all other music ...

That would probably fall under Fletcher's latter category.

From a creative perspective, I suppose it shouldn't be too tough to pull off. I can listen to any random song on most any radio station nowadays and hear "no noticeable differences to all other music" they play.

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Originally Posted by Vin-Su

Advanced demo's is what i would call it. Something that can be played on radio with no noticable differences to all other music and something that can be played in clubs on loud systems.

It just takes me so much time to mix a track because i do not have a set methods or procedures.

I think you have to be realistic Vin_Su.
You have budget equipment and by you're own admission you don't have a great deal of experience in recording (I don't mean this to sound disrespectful it's just the way it is), so your recordings are probably not going to sound 'radio ready' for some time.

I'm probably not that much farther down the road than yourself experience wise and the gear I use is probably not anything much better than what you have at your disposal so I'm talking newbie to newbie here just so you know.

Professional sounding recordings (to me an 'advanced demo' should be recorded professionally) are an obvious long term goal for any homerecor, but I think it's an idea to set yourself more realistic targets in the nearer future, otherwise disillusionment can set in pretty quickly. I'm happy when I listen back to stuff I recorded six months ago and there is a noticeable improvement in my current recordings, even if they're still a long way off 'pro' sounding.

This is an excellent place to hang out and learn.

Good luck with it.

[patelt78]

You can kick ass with the renaissance maxx bundle. It has all the essential plugins. It does not have any effect stuff like delay or chorus - but those are not the most iimportant plugins. You can probably download some decent free chorus and delay pluins for free.

http://www.waves.com/content.asp?id=53

[jake-owa]

Don't worry so much about preamps yet. Get some nice mics and make an album worth of material that you are mostly happy with before you even shop for em. Your mixer will be fine to get ideas out and practice. When you get better gear later you will really know what you need and you will be able to use it. Then you can go and rerecord the songs that are really worth it.

Nothing you record is gonna be radio quality no matter what the gear. Do it for fun and experience and you won't be dissapointed.

[paddyponchero]

The behringer UB series pres are very good at the price, the MX pres on the otherhand are very noisy even for live performance. If you have an MX desk try to keep the preamp as low as possible and get your gain elsewhere.

[Markd102]

Vin-Su..... What we are saying is "experience is EVERYTHING".
I can guarantee that our good friend Fletcher could walk in to your 'studio' and use only your current equipment, and turn out a much better recording than you would even if you had free run of his studio and all it's equipment. And it's simply because he has those years and years or experience that money can't buy, and there is no quick way of getting.

So start with a 'decent' mic..... get a good eq and compressor plug-in and practise heaps.

Then as was mentioned above, when you are proficient with that equipment, you'll have a much more informed view of the other equipment you need down the track.

[noisedude]

All good advice. For the sake of a few dollars, the difference between the Behringer mixer pres and those in the Yamaha MG mixers is relatively large. Still budget end though. I have a Soundcraft M12 which is very good for the next step up, IMVHO.

When I joined here I brought two of what I though were very good preamps to a thread and asked which was better. Fletcher told me they were both shite and it took me about six months of reading here til I realised he was right. I still can't afford either anyway

Bottom line - get doing it, squeeze everything you can out of what you have, then be saving for a step up.

One last hint ... when you are saving for gear more than you are for instruments - you need to consider whether you've lost focus on your music. I'm scrapping microphone and preamp purchases to get a new guitar amp and one of my guitars overhauled over Christmas.

[arcaxis]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

... if you're trying to "make a record" then you best be robbing some liquor stores and getting a whole boatload of long green together entation.

Best of luck with it.

Fletcher,

Why are you picking on liquor stores ?

Four posts since April 2003 suggesting to obtain gear bucks from liquor stores !!

[In Tune Audio]

Originally Posted by arcaxis

Fletcher,

Why are you picking on liquor stores ?

Four posts since April 2003 suggesting to obtain gear bucks from liquor stores !!

I knew Fletcher was awesome, and well respected, but I didn't realize he had a cult following here, where people could actually tell you how many times he used a reference since the beginning of 2003

[OneArmedScissor]

Originally Posted by Markd102

I can guarantee that our good friend Fletcher could walk in to your 'studio' and use only your current equipment, and turn out a much better recording than you would even if you had free run of his studio and all it's equipment.

You know, I read stuff like that all the time. I'd be downright hilarious to see it for once.

Originally Posted by In Tune Audio

I knew Fletcher was awesome, and well respected, but I didn't realize he had a cult following here, where people could actually tell you how many times he used a reference since the beginning of 2003

Well then you're obviously in the dark about how things work here, aren't ya?

[Vin-Su]

All very good advice and some funny comments too!

Would love to take up the challenge of a gear swap with Fletcher lol

to answer MadAudio's question i just see it as easier to record a track by itself in soundforge, play around with it then add it too the mix in Acid.

[noisedude]

Cool - you gotta go with what works for you now ... just don't get trapped into it! I realised recently that something I was doing out of habit was affecting my productivity ... easy pattern to fall into.