Hey Ed... got my 20/20's!!!

[S8-N]

Hey now...
Got 'em and they sound good... although my "control room" is too small to properly position them for monitoring at my desk. No big deal... It seems like you must be at least ten feet from them before you can really hear(feel) the low end. I have to wheel myself back to the other side of the room to monitor. It wouldn't be so bad except my dog always sleeps behind my chair and I run over his tail when I roll back...
I have a few questions...
1. I noticed in the photo of your studio that you have your 20/20's laying on their side... is their a difference in sound when you do this? Dr. Stawl had his set up the same way.
2. You have 20/20P's right? Does your powered monitor get hot? Mine seems awfully hot to the touch on the rear panel...
3. Do you leave them powered on all of the time or do you turn the power off when you aren't using them?
4. ever blown a speaker??? I'm pushing a lot of low end through them and they don't seem to like it... they distort. Should I back off the bottom end?
Thanksabunch,
S8-N

[dbho]

OK, in my misspent youth I was a competition car stereo installer. (no comments) I am also MECP First call certified (means nothing to you Im sure). Anyway, I have a few comments here:

The speakers low end sounds better at 10 feet away becasue the actual "wave" of a 35htz signal is about (guessing from memory here) 60 feet long. What that means is that in a perfect world, it takes 60 feet for that frequency to open completly. (back to signwave generators). Anyway, in real life this doesnt count as bad (does in cars though!). The reason is that reflection and absorbson (cant spell sorry) affect the wave. Speaker placement in highend home AND car audio makes a hugh difference in sound. Which is why he lays his on his side (he took a mental note that they just sounded better that way in HIS studio. Might not be the same case in yours). Which brings me to my next point.

I dont agree with Ed (for the first time thus far) about the speakers sounding better after being left on for a while. The fact is that speakers WILL sound better (more accurate at least) when they are COLD. Dont believe me? If you have a competition car audio system and listen to it in the winter morning you will understand. The reason for this is that the voice coils of the speakers get hot with use. When they get hot, they are not as accurate. Im not saying to cool your speakers but Im saying prolonged use WILL produce more distortion than short bursts. On that note, the next point.

Ed says he is overpowering his monitors a little. Well, he is able to do this because a clean audio signal will produce less distortion. i.e. If you run 100 watts into a speaker rated for 100watts (there are many more vars here but lets not get into it) for 2 hours with a very distorted signal, you will run the risk off damaging your speakers. "Blowing" a speaker is in fact heating the voice coil until the point that you burn a small break in the coil (it is literaly a coil). It is a known fact that you could push 150 watts into that system with a very clean signal and never blow those same speakers.

Also. Coming from a very highend audio field, I can say that I dont think most monitors for stidio's are worth crap. I have seen the construction and even listened to them and I think they sound ok, but nothing to compared to a true audiophiles system. I would recommend any recording engineer to study speaker design by way of car audio. Most people do not make their own inclosures for home audio but you do in car audio. Theil/Small baby all the way.

DBHO

[James HE]

Well, if you want all your mixes to sound "good in the car" then maybe you should just mix in the car. If every body had a nice audiophile system them, the "OK" sounding Nearfields would be just "OK". But you want the mix to sound good on boomboxes and crappy earphones as well as you phat ride with the killer bass. That's the whole point of the "OK" sound of Nearfields.

So Ed, Are your tweeter outwards or inwards? (an innie or an outie)

My tweeters are on the inside, but I can't remember why I did that. Actually I've tried them offset- man that was just wierd for me.

BTW I mix on a pair of Technic SB-CR-33 speakers. And actually I love em'. But I do want a pair of 20/20's to go along with them. In due time I will be there with ya Clayton...

-jhe

[KingNothing]

Ya word up S8N, nice procurement. Now throw down those 5 bones, in unmarked 1 dollar increments and send away. I'll be expecting them.

[dbho]

no no no no. You mistake me. I dont think car gear is for monitoring. let me restate: The Technology in some car audio gear is is extremly high. For the same reasons you point out. A car is NOT an ideal enviroment to listen to music. Thus the equipment (more so the installation) plays a big role in the sound outcome. The shotty consumer home stereo can get away with much more slop than a car as the enviroment is controlled. Think about it. Humm, it takes a $600 set of seperates with good x-overs in a CAR DOOR made of metel to sound as nice a a pre-constructed set of $200 home speakers. Thus, designing custom enclosures for a car requires a bit of skill and knowledge of a speakers electrical properties (q). (dont get me confused with a bass bumping thug pumping 35htz at 2 a.m. in your local neighborhood. I enjoy a real system).

OK, the other thing was why an amp being overrated with power blah blah blah. The short of that concept has been termed headroom. Clipping is very detramental. I shorted it all into a clean signal into a clean amp will play over rated watts into a speaker. Headroom is key.

So we are in agreement mostly

DBHO

p.s. I was at your site and listened to some of your mixes. I dug the jazz deal (second song) The mix/sound of the first song was cool but not my style of music (but then agian, neither is jazz but it was cool )



[This message has been edited by dbho (edited 06-22-2000).]

[camn]

so, I want to get nice monitors, but Im in my car so much... can I get a flat reference sound in the Car? or is that out of the realm of possibility. Cuz that would save a lot of time.


xoxoxo

[GT]

The ideal speaker is a single point source that would reproduce the whole frequency without coloration.

This is why some cheap one way speakers sound in many ways better than two or three way speakers. One way speakers are closer to the single point source ideal.

The problem with a one way speakers, is that there is inherent coloration, because the high end which comes from the center of the cone is horn loaded by the speaker cone itself.

Now we move to the two way design, inherently wrong, no longer a single point source. Many things to fight, crossover design, crosover frequency, proper volume level between woofer and tweeter, and phasing problems.

But one big stength, the high end is no longer horn loaded.

The closest you can come to a single point source, with a two way system is what's called a line source.

Now here is where Ed and I disagree, to acheive line source with a two way system, the woofer and tweeter have to be on the same vertical plain.

By the way in my recoding studio I prefer cheap one way speakers, 5" seems to be about right size. It took a while to find the ones that sounded right, but when I did I knew.

I know this may sound crazy, but keep an open mind, there is something to be said for inherently better, when it comes to sound, and speakers.

Tannoy still makes full range one way speakers, and so does Kef.

[GT]

Hey ed,

Thanks for the reply!!

I've been a speaker nut ever since I was a kid. The line source of a two say system I referred to, is the line between the woofer and tweeter, where the sound blends together.

Having this line on the vertical plane simply makes for better, truer dispertion, and more coherent sound. In other words closer to the single point source ideal.

The tweeter on top is usually better, that's why allmost all speakers are desingned this way.

You would be better off lowering the speakers, to put the tweeter at ear level, than turning them upside down. The woofer will be that much closer to the floor, better bass reinforcement.

I totally agree with you on having the woofers closer together much stronger truer bass. Another words closer together, closer to being in phase.

I also agree about time alignment once again, this has to do with keeping the tweeter and woofer on the same vertical plain depthwise in the box. I once took a tweeter out of the box, and moved it in and out over the woofer, the music sounded like it was running through a phaser. So time aligment is real.

Once again keep an open mind about one way speakers, if you can find some that do the bass and treble right you may be plesently surprised.