Recording Area need advice

[Dracon]

Hello:

I'm uploading a photo of my recording area.
I'm going to put some cloth on wood frames and hang them on the wall like pictures. I was wondering if that is a good idea, or if it will cause problems?

I rent, so I can't make any permanent modifications. Any acoustical advice will be appreciate it.

[FLechdrop]

I guess it will rather do good than bad.

[Dracon]

Originally Posted by FLechdrop

I guess it will rather do good than bad.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you really believe it will help.
Do you need more information, than a photograph?
Would a diagram help or more photos of the room?

[frederic]

fabric over a wood frame by itself won't do much. Stuff 709 rigid fiberglass or rockwool in the frame behind the cloth, and you've made yourself a decent bass trap if its large, or a nice midrange trap if its small.

What acoustical problems are you experiencing?

[Dracon]

Originally Posted by frederic

What acoustical problems are you experiencing?

Well I haven't done extensive testing, but I have a low voice, and when I record I get a sound that I can only describe as wave build up.

I know, I don't know the terminology. Basically, after perhaps 20 to 30 seconds of me speaking (perhaps more like 5 to ten) I get this strange low noise wave. I figured since its a boxy area that my voice was bouncing back and forth and creating a strange acoustical effect.

I've moved the microphone from that area to do other setup tests. I've been trying to figure out software, configurations on the mixer, my Delta 44 soundcard as well as other issues. So I got tired of walking back and forth between the computer and the microphone, and it was kinda hard to see what was going on or change the settings on the mixer, I moved the mic next to the computer.

I just moved the mic back and have not done any testing since. However, the small amount of testing I've done gave me that. Hold on, let me test and see if I have any issues now.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

frederic, I still don't get the "709"? Is that a typo? Did you mean "703" or is there really a "709"?
fitZ

[Dracon]

Oh! here is a quick diagram that I drew. Just in case it helps!

[Dracon]

Actually, I didn't hear it. I think I originally heard feedback from the monitors that I had forgotten to turn off.

I don't hear any echos when I record. But I'm about 3 inches away from the mic. I guess I don't have to do anything?

[pdlstl]

Originally Posted by Dracon

I rent, so I can't make any permanent modifications. Any acoustical advice will be appreciate it.

Dracon,

I rent too. You saw the updated pics I posted today of my tracking studio. All of the Auralex you saw on the walls was put up very simply and temporarily.

I cut 4'x8' sheets of 1/4" pegboard (Masonite with regularly spaced holes) into 2' x 8' strips.

Since the Auralex I bought is 1' x 1', I simply glued the foam to the pegboard using the Auralex spray adhesive.

Then I measured between the 2 outermost holes on the back of the pegboard and put 2 plastic screw anchors in the wall. Screwed in 2 screws and left them sticking out about 3/8". Then just hung the pegboard on those screws.

Very easy and can be taken down quickly if I ever move.

[Dracon]

Hey pdlstl is there a better store to buy the Aurlex than guitar world or the local audio place?

[pdlstl]

Here's a reasonable place. It's not Auralex brand but foam is foam. I bought Auralex only because I get a deep discount on everything at GC. And...I'm tax-exempt.

Just remember, foam does nothing for bass trapping or soundproofing. Only knocks down the high freqs. And I would imagine your room has some.

Foam By Mail

[Calwood]

you could just buy some bass traps. I bought a room kit from auralex a couple years ago,..it came with 6 bass traps and they work pretty well. You can buy them individually as well,..theyre not that much I dont think. Anyway,..something to think about. Also,..if you still have the mic in the same place,..try facing it the other way and sing(or paly) into the room instead of facing the corner. Might help.

Take 'er easy,..
Calwood

[Innovations]

Ok, here is what you need to do.

Find a place that sells insulation to builders. Not a home improvement store. They should be willing to sell you a bale (2 ft x 2 ft x 4ft bundle) 3 or 4 pound per cubic foot fiberglass or mineral wool insulation Owens Corning 703 is the most common but there is Johns Manville and Roxul products too.

Go to the fabric store and buy a bunch of craft felt.

Wrap four inch thick stacks of the panels in felt. This should get you six panels 2 by 4 feet four inches deep. Hang them on the walls, particularly across the corners.

Not only is this better for soundproofing than any of the foams, and most likely cheaper, but the foams are generally applied with spray glue, which makes them a mess for apartment dwellers.

[Dracon]

Okay I was just at the Owens Corning website.

I was looking around for their 703 and they have (apparently) three products the 703 plain, the 703 FRK, and the 703 ASJ. They also have two depth of each product 1inch and 2inch.

In addition, one of their documents states that the 705 plain inch thickness has a lower RT60 rating than any other of their products.
Here is the document (the table is on page 2)
http://www.owenscorning.com/comminsu...s700Series.pdf

So which 703 should I ask for?

[frederic]

Originally Posted by RICK FITZPATRICK

frederic, I still don't get the "709"? Is that a typo? Did you mean "703" or is there really a "709"?
fitZ

I think for now on I'll just say "rigid fiberglass, ask Rick for the model number

Too many head injuries...

[frederic]

Originally Posted by pdlstl

Here's a reasonable place. It's not Auralex brand but foam is foam. I bought Auralex only because I get a deep discount on everything at GC. And...I'm tax-exempt.

Just remember, foam does nothing for bass trapping or soundproofing. Only knocks down the high freqs. And I would imagine your room has some.

Foam By Mail

1. Foam is not foam.
2. Foam is fairly ineffective with resolving low frequencies.

[Dracon]

Originally Posted by pdlstl

Here's a reasonable place. It's not Auralex brand but foam is foam. I bought Auralex only because I get a deep discount on everything at GC. And...I'm tax-exempt.

Just remember, foam does nothing for bass trapping or soundproofing. Only knocks down the high freqs. And I would imagine your room has some.

Foam By Mail

Hey thanks pdlst. I guess I need bass trapping, on top of getting rid of echoes in the room (the clap test). By the way spraying the foam unto peg board is a good idea.

[pdlstl]

Originally Posted by frederic

1. Foam is not foam.
2. Foam is fairly ineffective with resolving low frequencies.

frederic,

I disagree. When comparing Foam By Mail to Auralex, it's pretty much the same thing.

Thanks for agreeing with me on point 2.

dracon,

I opted for Johns Manville rigid fiberglass. All everyone can talk about is OC 703 but the JM equivelent actually preforms slight better. And in many cases is cheaper.

[Dracon]

Originally Posted by frederic

1. Foam is not foam.
2. Foam is fairly ineffective with resolving low frequencies.

I haven't looked at the specs for Polystyrene, but does anyone one know if this stuff does anything other than heat/cool insulation?

Also the website you gave me pdstl list some NRC values, but I have no idea what an NRC value is. Can anyone tell me.

[frederic]

Originally Posted by pdlstl

I disagree. Foam designed for acoustical use is pretty much the same from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Thanks for agreeing with me on point 2.

Glad we agree on #2. I've never found foam to be overly useful on lower frequencies, say, below 300-400 hz and down.

Highs and mids its very useful, but I believe its really an addition type product, where you utilize other methods first, then fine tune iwht the foam.

That's just my preference, having owned several pro studios over the years.

As far as foam being the same from manufacturer to manufacturer, I'll have to disagree here. I have foam by mail in the attic, and I'm not going to use it. If I do decide to use any foam, it will be auralex specifically, because I know as a fact its fireretardant.

I know, as a fact, the foam by mail stuff isn't anywhere near as flame retardant as the auralex stuff. I proved it with a lighter. Held flame to the edge, and the flame didn't go out on the foam by mail product immediately, the same way the auralex did. That's the safety difference.

Squeezing the two foams with my fingers, they feel very similar, I'll agree, but the auralex does feel different. They weight the same for the same size and thickness, but the auralex feels like the individual foam cells are minutely smaller. Can I measure this? No, probably not. Just going by my thumbs.

But I weigh safety above all else. The fact that the foam by mail stuff that I have sitting in my attic, did not extinguish right away, will guarrentee I will not put one iota of the stuff anywhere near my studio.

[Dracon]

Not that I'm a smoker or that I'm going to light a fire in my spare bedroom. But, if I can get a fire retardant foam, I'd probably go with that. So I guess as far as foam (for the highs) I'll end up at GC.

I've looked on line and in the Yellow pages for my area, and no one seems to carry this stuff. What the heck did you guys look under. I've looked under insulation (added commercial to it), Building Materials, and Construction Supplies.
Any suggestions? All I find is Lumber Yards, Hardware Stores, and concrete.

[pdlstl]

Call this number to find who a local dealer might be in your area: 303-978-4900. This is the Johns Manville number.


Well, I have to say, all of the foam in my studio is Auralex. As I stated before, I get a hell of a deal on it at GC.

But if I couldn't afford it, I would probably be using something such as Foam By Mail. Acoustically, I think it probably performs reasonably similar.

*On edit - This is my first experience into owning my own studio but did spend 8 years in Nashville as a session player. Worked in some extremely high end facilities there. I watched and learned a lot.

Peace.

[Dracon]

Okay!

I've found some local guys, that sell insulation. I don't know if they have the Corning 703 or not. I have a question I was at the SAE website reading and stuff, and I used the RT60 Calculator I get the following results

125Hz - .62
250Hz - .87
500Hz - 1.45
1000Hz - 1.74
2000Hz - 2.17
4000Hz - 2.86

So my biggest problem according to the RT60 calculator and what I've read is the 500Hz and above range. Supposedly I'd want anything between .4 and .5, which I don't have anywhere.
Is this foam that I need, or some carpets and the bass traps?

Hey Thanks pdlstl!

[Dracon]

Two more silly questions.
1. Is Rockwool only for Europe?
2. I've heard the the Pink Stuff can be used for noise reduction as well?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I've heard the the Pink Stuff can be used for noise reduction as well?

Noise reduction? Only within a two leaf assembly, such as a wall, or ceiling. It does nothing for transmission loss by itself. For absorption, it is not dense enough. Use RIGID fiberglass(like Owens Corning 703 panels) for that purpose. The absorption is via RESISTANCE to air molecule movement within the fibers of the fiberglass. This resistance turns molecular movement energy into heat.(but don't try to heat your house with it ) Although Pink fiberglass DOES absorb to a certain degree, it doesn't have the density to "resist" this movement of air molecules to the degree that rigid fiberglass does, so it has a lower absorption coefficient. I believe Pink is in the 2lb per cubic foot range and rigid fiberglass is about 6lb per cubic foot, but I could be off a little.

So my biggest problem according to the RT60 calculator and what I've read is the 500Hz and above range. Supposedly I'd want anything between .4 and .5, which I don't have anywhere.

Don't count on that calculator to give you true results. Small room RT-60 is filled with all kinds of misnomers. For one, modes decay at different rates, especially in small rooms. Even measuring it in small rooms is difficult. The best approach to SMALL rooms is absorption up the ying yang, then signal process to taste. But as usual, my disclaimer is in full force in this regard.( MY .02 is NOT EXPERT ADVICE)
fitZ