attaching traps to wall/ceiling corners, walls, and ceilings...

[freakkguitarist]

how do YOU do it?

[Innovations]

if the trap has a frame like a picture then hang it just like a picture with a wire attached to eye screws in the frame.

For unframed bass traps the easiest solution is impaling clips. You can buy these for about fifty cents or if you are creative make some of your own.

[freakkguitarist]

what exactly are impailing clips? any other options?

how should i attach the fabric to the insulation without a wood backing or sides to staple it to?

[Innovations]

Originally Posted by freakkguitarist

what exactly are impailing clips? any other options?

how should i attach the fabric to the insulation without a wood backing or sides to staple it to?

Impaling clips are sheet metal punched into spiky things, kind of like gang nails used for trusses.

Attaching the fabric is kind of tricky because the fiberglass itself, if pulled on too much will just fray apart. Some possibilities include spray adhesive and hot glue. I think the best possibility is to wrap all the way around and glue/pin the fabric to itself.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by Innovations

Attaching the fabric is kind of tricky because the fiberglass itself, if pulled on too much will just fray apart. Some possibilities include spray adhesive and hot glue. I think the best possibility is to wrap all the way around and glue/pin the fabric to itself.

My stock advice is to sew a big pillowcase. It's just four seams, three if you don't mind leaving it open on one end.

[Innovations]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

My stock advice is to sew a big pillowcase. It's just four seams, three if you don't mind leaving it open on one end.

That works, but is hard to get a really snug appearance.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by Innovations

That works, but is hard to get a really snug appearance.

Well if you want to get particular, get yourself McCall's pattern #M4124 and size up cushion C to 2'x4'

I seriously need some help

[Innovations]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

Well if you want to get particular, get yourself McCall's pattern #M4124 and size up cushion C to 2'x4'

I seriously need some help

If 703 behaved like foam (which thankfully it does not) then it would spring back into shaped when pushed into the pillow case. But when you deform it then it tends to stay deformed. So you have to make the 'pillow case' with enough slack to put the fiberglass in easily.

Just wrap all the way around like a christmas package and then glue or pin.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by Innovations

So you have to make the 'pillow case' with enough slack to put the fiberglass in easily.

Just wrap all the way around like a christmas package and then glue or pin.

Hehehe, I don't think we'll ever agree on this

If using a coarse weave fabric like Guilford, it's not a big problem. It would be difficult with felt.

I'm in the process of making portable absorbers, I'll post some pictures when done.

[freakkguitarist]

bump

hot glue strong enough to hold it to the walls/ceiling

[fraserhutch]

What about Liquid Nails? (there is one of these for foam I think).

[Innovations]

Directly gluing a semi-rigid fiber product like 703 or 705 to a wall or ceiling will not work. it shreds apart too easily. The glue will penetrate the first few fibers of the batt and these will stick to the wall while the rest will pull away, leaving you with a fuzzy glue strip on the wall.

[zbert]

I am in the process of woking on my panels right now. I am covering them with muslin and using Sobo fabric glue to hold it together. On the back side I took 2" by 1/4" thick aspen wood and used liquid nails to gule it on. I then took eye hooks and put that into the wood. Used wire between the eyes and on the walls I'm putting a couple of 20lb hooks and hanging them like a picture. So far so good.

[pjamstudio]

zbert wrote: "I am in the process of woking on my panels right now. I am covering them with muslin and using Sobo fabric glue to hold it together. On the back side I took 2" by 1/4" thick aspen wood and used liquid nails to gule it on. I then took eye hooks and put that into the wood. Used wire between the eyes and on the walls I'm putting a couple of 20lb hooks and hanging them like a picture. So far so good."

I did something similar using long screws through the panels into 2x2 wood strips. But I spaced the wood strips a couple inches in from the side of the panels. Now I'm wondering if I've defeated the idea of the trap since the panel can only vibrate between the wood strips.

What do you guys think?

[notbradsohner]

the point of fabric covered insulation is not to stop vibrations, it simply absorbs sound. (which will cause it to vibrate a little guess), but not enough to affect it.

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by Innovations

Directly gluing a semi-rigid fiber product like 703 or 705 to a wall or ceiling will not work. it shreds apart too easily. The glue will penetrate the first few fibers of the batt and these will stick to the wall while the rest will pull away, leaving you with a fuzzy glue strip on the wall.

Actiually, I was referring to foam. I have foam bass traps from Auralex, and I thought that was a somewhat standard way of attaching them.

[maxbato]

Here is how I attached my 3" rockwook panels to the wall.

Before wrapping them with Musin Fabric, I stuck two 1/8 x 4" toggle bolts through the panels about 5" in and 12" down from the top of the panel. I put fender washers on each end of the toggle bolt and then tigtened on the toggle part until it sqeezed the rockwool together as much as possible. (this will leave two small button like holes in the rockwool)

After, I wrapped the front of the panel in Muslin like a christmas present leaving the back exposed and the toggles sticking out the back. I then wrapped simple hanging wire around each toggle in the back like a picture frame. (Use 3M spray adhesive when wrapping the fabric.)

Here is the finished results:









This made a HUGE difference in the sound of my room. This room is 15x23x8.

Let me know if you have questions.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by maxbato

Here is how I attached my 3" rockwook panels to the wall.

After, I wrapped the front of the panel in Muslin like a christmas present leaving the back exposed and the toggles sticking out the back. I then wrapped simple hanging wire around each toggle in the back like a picture frame.

I'm about to attempt something like what you've done here. However, I was wondering if there would be a significant benefit to "de-coupling" the absorbers from the walls by suspending them from the ceiling instead. Obviously, you'd lose some space in the room, but you'd gain some extra absorbancy from the air between the absorber and the wall. Or at least it seems like that would be the case.

What do people in this forum think about the costs v. benefits of hanging absorbers on lines from the ceiling rather than attaching them to the walls?

[frederic]

Gluing auralex to the wall is different than gluing fiberglass, because foam will retain its structure unless you cut it up, whereas fiberglass, is not a structure, its small peices of glass (hence, fiber glass) packed together in a "wad". its not even a cloth, which has a woven structure. Fiberglass and rockwall really is just wadded glass fibers, so when you glue to the surface, you're only gluing some of the fibers, and the others can easily pull away.

For this reason, its recommended to build a simple wooden frame, out of pine, ash, whatever you want, like a pictue frame, and shove the fiberglass batts inside the frame, and cover with cloth of your choosing.

The fiberglass (703 rigid fiberglass especially) is stiff enough to stand upright in such a cloth-covered frame on its own, but its not strong enough to glue to the wall directly as per the above reasons.

Frame it, and hang it on the wall like a picture - wire from the two sides of the frame over a small hook or nail.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by frederic

Frame it, and hang it on the wall like a picture - wire from the two sides of the frame over a small hook or nail.

Okay, but isn't there a lot of extra absorption to be gained by putting some distance between the framed fiberglass panel and the wall? That's why I've been thinking about hanging mine from the ceiling instead of hanging them right on the wall. They'd be the same distance from the floor and ceiling, and they'd still be hanging parallel (or nearly so) to the wall, but they'd be hanging about six or eight inches away and would not actually be connected to the wall itself.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

Okay, but isn't there a lot of extra absorption to be gained by putting some distance between the framed fiberglass panel and the wall? That's why I've been thinking about hanging mine from the ceiling instead of hanging them right on the wall. They'd be the same distance from the floor and ceiling, and they'd still be hanging parallel (or nearly so) to the wall, but they'd be hanging about six or eight inches away and would not actually be connected to the wall itself.

Yeah, you can do that. I believe you want to hang it the same distance as its thickness for optimal absorption; such a distance (2", 4") can be incorporated into a frame, or a ceiling hanging, whatever.

[Innovations]

Yes, for fiberglass there is an advantage to having an air space behind the panel, but don't let this put a big crimp in how you decide to hang your panels. Just use a little spacer to hold them out some from the walls.

There is NO advantage to 'decoupling' them from the wall.

There is an installation video I think on the real traps site that shows how they suggest to do it with their traps.

The toggle bolt/fender washer idea works, but looses some absortive effectiveness in the area right around where the fiberglass is compressed.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by Innovations

There is NO advantage to 'decoupling' them from the wall.

There is an installation video I think on the real traps site that shows how they suggest to do it with their traps.

Excellent! Thanks. That's exactly what I needed to know.