Cassete or Digital

[slash89]

Hey guys, I am having trouble deciding whether to get a cassete or digital, 4 track recorder. Can I have your opinions?

thanks

ps, my budget is 200$

[DigitalSmigital]

Double-posting?

See your answer in the newbie forum...

[A Reel Person]

you won't get much endorsement for digital mutitrackers in this forum, & that's by pure instinct, alone.

However, I'd point you toward genuine Tascam Portastudio cassette-based 4- or 8-trackers, for logical reasons that go way beyond the analog-digital kneejerk reaction. I'll skip the details, and summarize by saying the digital-flash based memory recorders are too small, simple, and inadequate as compared to something as full featured as the Tascam 424mkIII, as only one example.

News flash, but the 424mkIII is no longer available as new product in most music stores, but if you can find a brand new one at any retailer, you might want to snatch it up, as it might be the very last one.

The Tascam 414mkII is the only remaining analog Portastudio that's readily available in stores, and it's a pretty adequate unit, that's just a slice lower-tech than the 424mkIII. The Tascam 414mkII as new retail might be your best new Tascam Portastudio purchase available these days.

(Note: The analog/cassette Tascam Porta-02mkII and MF-P01 Portastudios are also still available as new-retail, but I am not inclined to recommend them, as they're both too light on features and capability. HINT: the Porta-02mkII and MF-P01 would be great first multitrackers for 10 year olds).

Beyond that, you may find 424mkIII's in abundance as used product on Ebay, as well as a host of other awesome Tascam Portastudios.

I'd mention other Tascams in reference to Ebay, that are worth investigation, which are:
Tascam 244
Tascam 246
Tascam 424mkII
Tascam 464
Tascam 644
Tascam 488
Tascam 488mkII
Tascam 688
Tascam Porta One
Tascam Porta Two
Tascam Porta Two HS


Tascam 234 Syncaset
Tascam 238 Syncaset
(Syncaset's are standalone rackmount multitrack cassette recorders which require an external mixer. Technically, the 234 will function adequately without a mixer, too, but is probably best utilized with a mixer.)

I'm going to otherwise recommend you stay away from most digital porta-multi-trackers. They're all light in the mixing/dubbing department, and digital has those gawdawful menus. Also, I know miniaturized is the buzzword of the day, but when you're talking multitrack recorders, sometimes things can get too small. Not only that, but flash memory recorders of today record a pathetically low amount of minutes, before you're required to run to your puter for a dump-session, so you may continue. Onboard mixing itself is painfully inadequate on almost all the flash memory digital recorders I can think of, models too numerous to mention.

Summary:
=======
a) Try to find a 424mkIII as new, retail, if you can find one, otherwise hit Ebay for this item. The 424mkIII is the most like-new Tascam Portastudio you may find on Ebay, with some units having literally only a couple hours on them. If finding like-new Portastudio is your Ebay shopping goal, the 424mkIII is it.

b) Get the 414mkII as new, retail, if you think you can live with the scaled down feature set.

c) Search Ebay for those other model numbers, above, and make your best deal. If I were to recommend a used Portastudio, I'd start with the 244, 246, 424mkII and/or 488mkII, and then all the others on the list, following that.

d) Skip to the chase and buy the full featured 1/4" reel 8-track Portastudio, the Tascam 388. That gives you all of the best features in one package. The 388 is also an Ebay item. (The 388 being reel, is not mentioned above, but is a leading product in used recording gear, that's worth checking out).

Notes:
Don't forget to check Tascam Syncasets;
The Porta-02mkII & MF-P01 are great if you're shopping for a 10 year old;
All those digital flash recorders basically suck.

good luck

[A Reel Person]

I critiqued 4- & 8- track flash memory recorders, but I'd give the same thumbs-down to 4- & 8- track HD recorders, of the type that can be found new/retail, these days. HD solves the time limits of the flash memory system, but most 4- & 8- track HD all-in-one'rs will only record 2 simple inputs to 2 tracks simultaneously/max. Most of these units I've seen have little or no input-side mixing capability, and only 2 inputs, so the newest breed of recording devices are all ka-put in my book.

If you're inclined toward menus, pushbutton gadgetiness, and 2x2 recording matrix would not be limiting, then maybe the current digital 4- & 8- trackers are for you. Especially if you want to transfer tracks to & from your computer a lot, digital's for you.

There's a better analog solution. No offense.

There are a couple digital's that I'll recommend, mostly because they're analog/digital hybrids. The analog section of the hybrid design of these units solves some of the gripes I have about strictly digital units. They are as follows:
Tascam 564 MD Portastudio
Yamaha MD8
Fostex FD-4
Fostex FD-8

... that's a pretty short list, but if you "went digital" on any of those units, you'd have my blessing.

That's just MO, and YMMV.

[DigitalSmigital]

Originally Posted by DigitalSmigital

Double-posting?

See your answer in the newbie forum...

Well, they locked the one in the newbie forum, where Phyl suggested a digital solution and an analog one.

I don't know of a digital four tracker under $200.

What do you say, Reel? Are any of the hybrids going for under two bills on eBay?

[A Reel Person]

For $200, you're best value is in the Ebay market. You could easily afford some of the best model numbers for that much, depending on the day. I see bids go high and low, every day, but you're easily within reach of a used:
424mkIII
424mkII
414mkII
244
246
464
644
Porta One
Porta Two(& HS)

The 424mkII, 464, Porta One and 244 often bid in the $100 range. The 414mkII, Porta Two & 246 often bids in the $150 range. The 424mkIII often bids in the $200 range.

You don't have much buying power for $200 in brand new recording gear. That gets you a Porta 02mkII and a mic at Guitar Center. The right Ebay gear buy could be a huge gain in value over brand new equipment.

Honestly, analog's gone to a mostly used market, because remaining stocks of new analog multitrackers are so limited, they're almost gone completely.

For under $200, IMO your best value is the Tascam 246, given that you can find a pampered low use unit. For less than $200, depending on the day, with a VG-condition 246 you'd be really stylin'.

The 244 and 424mkII are also a great value in their price range.

The 464 is a topline model that's apparently a bit less popular, and therefore it may often be had at a steal of a bargain price. A 464 bidding in the $125 range would be a tremendous value.

I tend to recommend the 464 and 644 a bit less, because they're increasingly more gadgety than most of the other Tascam Portastudios. The 464 I could handle, but it has a menu driven assign function and LCD meter. The 644 is very gadgety indeed, with built in midi synchronizer, and tons of buttons, that's also equipped with a digital LCD assign matrix and VU level meter bars.

Anyway, all those models are out there. Shop Ebay/Tascam for a while, and make up your own mind. All the models I've mentioned are worthy multitrackers, in their own right.

Good luck.

[A Reel Person]

The Fostex FD-4 regularly bids in the $150 range, but the FD-4 is most often an external SCSI drive recorder, with very few of them having the onboard HD. If you can find an FD-4 with internal HD, you could expect it to be about $200, and that would be a good value. If you can tolerate the external HD setup, the FD-4 can be purchased for about $150, that often includes a Syquest drive, or similar external drive. Hey, I have an FD-4 with an external drive, and it's not shabby, but a built in drive is always better.

You may also find a Fostex FD-8 bidding in the $200 range, occasionally, but it's usually the external drive model in this price range. An FD-8 with internal HD would be more like $300.

************************************
[IMO] The BEST VALUE HYBRID for <$200 would be the Tascam 564 MD Portastudio, and I guess that's the bottom line. They bid more or less than $200, depending on the day.
************************************

For my best value in cassettes, see my previous post.

[A Reel Person]

http://www.zzounds.com/item--TAS424MKIII

$299 including free shipping, which is a deal that can't be beaten! This may be the only retailer in town who has these new machines, so if you were on the fence about buying a new 424mkIII, you might want to do it now!

There's no assurance that there will be any more new stock of the 424mkIII anywhere else, at any future time, and we have no sign or assuranced that Tascam will unveil any brand new cassette 4-track Portastudios, to succeed the 424mkIII.

I'm considering popping for a new 424mkIII, for $299 at Zzounds, now! You should consider it, too.

[slash89]

Wow! I forgot to check this thread. Thank you so much reel person. Yeah I'm probably going to get the 424MkIII. Now my friend has the 414MkII, and that machine records at 3-3/4 tape speed, which is way fast if I'm correct. Does the 424 record that fast? If it does, is there a way to get the machine alone, without other equipment, to record at normal tape speed? Thanks so much

-Slash89

[DigitalSmigital]

The 424 and 414 both record at the same speed, but I think only the 424 has regular (slow) speed too. (I don't have a 414, so I'm not sure about that)

Get a new 424 mkIII, you won't regret it.

[slash89]

I think I am gunna snag one. You said the 424 records at regular speed? Do you know if this will effect sound quality or anything? Do you need a tape deck to record the songs at normal speed IF you recorded them originally at high speed on the 424? Thx again guys.

[A Reel Person]

The High speed recording mode boosts the fidelity accordingly.

You'd typically need another recording device, such as a cassette deck or your puter, to record the mixed down version of your song from the 424mkIII. The 424mkIII's 4-track master tapes are not directly compatible with any standard tape deck. You must make a dub, from the 424mkIII to a standard recording/playback device, in order to listen back on your most common formats, cassette & cdr.

The 424mkIII's still available, for a limited time only. I might snag one, too!

[slash89]

So it looks like I am going to get the 424MkIII. If I get the Sony Dual Cassette Deck, TC-WE305, which is $99.99 at Best Buy, would I be able to record on the 424 at the 3-3/4 fast speed and then mix it down with the Sony? With those two devices, would I be able to make my tapes?

[themaddog]

Yes, you could record on a 424 then mix down to the Sony cassette recorder. The process would be the same for recording to computer if you want to produce CD-R's. I don't know about the inputs on the Sony casette recorder, but one thing I would look for is whether or not you can change the input volume or not. If you can boost it, you can get a stronger signal to the tape on the Sony recorder. You may want to buy a cheaper 4 track recorder, that records at normal 1 7/8 ips (not double speed), but can change the volume level on the recorder in case you need to boost the signal or whatever.

-MD

[A Reel Person]

has manual/analog record level control and RCA input/output connectors.

The Sony TC-WE305 should do an adequate job as a cassette mixdown recorder.

[A Reel Person]

.............

[slash89]

You have been tons of help guys. Thank you so much!!!!

[A Reel Person]

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--TAS424MKIII

but this site (samedaymusic) seems to be somehow affiliated with Zzounds, (link above),... Both of sites (Zzounds & Same Day Music) operate out of New Jersey, and both sites link to the same reviews on the 424mkIII. That's not conclusive, in itself, but both sites are the only sites that offer the new 424mkIII, currently in stock, $299.95/free shipping. It's the best (only) deal going!

[The Ghost of FM]

ARP,

All this talk of the soon to disappear 424 Mk III has peaked my curiosity in the unit and I noticed it appears to be missing tradition insert points on the mixer channels!

Why would they leave out such a necessary and basic feature like this!

Or is it there and I am just going blind!

Cheers!

[DigitalSmigital]

There are no insert jacks on the 424 mkIII, much to my chagrin. This is why most of my vocal and bass tracks are done on my 464.

Why do engineers do the things they do?

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of FM

ARP,

All this talk of the soon to disappear 424 Mk III has peaked my curiosity in the unit and I noticed it appears to be missing tradition insert points on the mixer channels!

Why would they leave out such a necessary and basic feature like this!

Or is it there and I am just going blind!

Cheers!

Nope .. not blind Jeff ... I've always asked why oh why did "they" leave out the all important insert points on the MKIII. It's basically a cheap design that's all. I feel TASCAM/TEAC made the 424 models as an "after-thought", just enough to satisfy the cassette crowd and "cheap" enough for the people to afford. They didn't put in the heart and resources like they did on the 244, 234, 246, 238, 688 etc .... Most everything after that is an insult.

Just my 2 cents ....

~Daniel

[A Reel Person]

The 424mkIII doesn't have channel inserts or Access Snd/Rcv patchpoints, or a lot of other desirable functions.

It would be nice to see Tascam succeed the 424mkIII with a new analog model, that addressed all of the shortcomings of the 424mkIII. In the meantime, the 424mkIII's the best thing in the new analog Portastudio market.

I wonder if a write-in campaign to Tascam on the subject of analog Portastudios would do any good? Unless Tascam has another card up it's sleeve, it doesn't seem like there's anything new coming out of Tascam on cassette Porta's.

(IMO) They should do another 388-type thing, or a 246-type thing for cassette, with newly updated designs. Even if they kept most of the 424mkIII's design and improved upon it, would be nice.

That's just wishful thinking, & daydreaming, I'm afraid. I don't have much hope on the Tascam/Analog front, as far as long term continuation of the cassette format Portastudio, but I'm still keeping my fingers crossed. I'd love to be proven wrong, 6 or 9 months from now, with the news of another cassette based high end Portastudio. Until then, I'm not holding my breath, but if the 424mkIII's truly the end of the line, it makes it a bit more of an important machine, especially while they can still be had new. (MO).

That's not speaking directly about the low-end MF-P01 &Porta02mkII, or of the medium-tech 414mkII, which still can be had as new stock items.

Anyway, there's no inserts on the 424mkIII, & lots of other things.

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

The 424mkIII doesn't have channel inserts or Access Snd/Rcv patchpoints, or a lot of other desirable functions.

It would be nice to see Tascam succeed the 424mkIII with a new analog model, that addressed all of the shortcomings of the 424mkIII. In the meantime, the 424mkIII'a the best thing in the new analog Portastudio market.

I wonder if a write-in campaign to Tascam on the subject of analog Portastudios would do any good? Unless Tascam has another card up it's sleeve, it doesn't seem like there's anything new coming out of Tascam on cassette Porta's.

(IMO) They should do another 388-type thing, or a 246-type thing for cassette, with newly updated designs. Even if they kept most of the 424mkIII's design and improved upon it, would be nice.

That's just wishful thinking, & daydreaming, I'm afraid. I don't have much hope on the Tascam/Analog front, as far as long term continuation of the cassette format Portastudio, but I'm still keeping my fingers crossed. I'd love to be proven wrong, 6 or 9 months from now, with the news of another cassette based high end Portastudio. Until then, I'm not holding my breath, but if the 424mkIII's truly the end of the line, it makes it a bit more of an important machine, especially while they can still be had new. (MO).

That's not speaking directly about the low-end MF-P01 &Porta02mkII, or of the medium-tech 414mkII, which still can be had as new stock items.

Anyway, there's no inserts on the 424mkIII, & lots of other things.

I'd agree about the write-in campaign being a good idea, Dave. I think those things usually have an impact, provided they're being executed the correct way. Personally I'd like to see a 388/246 hybrid type model where the best of both are implemented. For example, I'd like to see the 388 mixing section, inputs/outputs be implemented in the "new portastudio" BUT made specifically for a 4 track. So it'd just be a 388 mixer section cut in half. The kicker here would be that the recorder section would rely on 1/4" Quantegy 407 tape running at 3 1/2, 7 1/2 and 15 ips! 3 heads. DBX would be switchable. The beauty of this is that now, with the wider tracks, DBX would be un-neccessary especially when running at higher speeds and would satisfy the "purists" out-there while DBX would offer others complete hiss-free performance on the lowest speeds. Another benefit would be that the machine would cost about half of what the 388 retailed for!

Damn, on the other hand, lots of folks would hate not having 8 tracks ...

I now feel that perhaps it'd be smart for TEAC to just re-release their 246 and 388 models. That'd be as simple as can be, don't you think ? I feel a write-in campaign coming on ..

~Daniel

[A Reel Person]

I know you called Teac yourself, personally, and you were scoffed at on the phone, and were told "cassette is dead". That was the worst, most disheartening quote I've ever heard on these boards. Anyway, if there was a rise of the user base for a write in campaign, it might have some impact. It's hard to say what Tascam may or may not do, and only time will tell.

If they made brand new units like the DP01 more capable, it might bridge the gap that the high end Portastudios leave,... but it doesn't. The DP01 is a stripped down box. To do what you can do with the 388 would take no less than the 2488, and still that's an uneven comparison, because the 388 has patching capabilities that goes beyond that of the 2488.

Unless there is a new cassette or analog Portastudio on the horizon from Tascam, then there is no good solution, 'cept the legacy market (Ebay). The DP01 doesn't cut it, because I'm spoiled by the 424mkIII.

Why, on earth, does Tascam create an 8-tracker that only records 2-inputs simul/max, and with only 2 stripped inputs with no input side mixing? Who would want that sort of thing. Not me. I'll stick with any of a number of more highly capable Portastudios:
the 424mkIII
424mkII,
244,
246,
388,
488mkII,
688,...

and anything but the DP01.

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

I know you called Teac yourself, personally, and you were scoffed at on the phone, and were told "cassette is dead". That was the worst, most disheartening quote I've ever heard on these boards. Anyway, if there was a rise of the user base for a write in campaign, it might have some impact. It's hard to say what Tascam may or may not do, and only time will tell.

If they made brand new units like the DP01 more capable, it might bridge the gap that the high end Portastudios leave,... but it doesn't. The DP01 is a stripped down box. To do what you can do with the 388 would take no less than the 2488, and still that's an uneven comparison, because the 388 has patching capabilities that goes beyond that of the 2488.

Unless there is a new cassette or analog Portastudio on the horizon from Tascam, then there is no good solution,, 'cept the legacy market (Ebay). The DP01 doesn't cut it, because I'm spoiled by the 424mkIII.

Why, on earth, does Tascam create an 8-tracker that only records 2-inputs simul/max, and with only 2 stripped inputs with no input side mixing? Who would want that sort of thing. Not me. I'll stick with any of a number of more highly capable Portastudios:
the 424mkIII
424mkII,
244,
246,
388,
488mkII,
688,...

and anything but the DP01.

I agree on all your points, and you're right, it was quite a blow when that TASCAM (USA) guy told me point blank that cassette is dead and that they're not planning anything beyond the 424 mkIII. Damn shame but all can change at any time. Nothing is set in stone. (Remember the 34B being re-introduced ?). I TRULY feel that if enough people wrote it, to TEAC JAPAN, and made their case, that TEAC /TASCAM would have to take a second look at their Analog gear. Now, the question is HOW should we focus on the write-in campaign ? People would have to be more or less in "sync" (no pun ) with each other. First we'd have to write to the JAPAN head office, no less. Second, we'd have to figure out a way to "execute" properly. How would a letter campaign look like and what would it contain ? Can we use the Analog Only forum in some way to get this off the ground ? How can we do it so that TEAC JAPAN takes these "letters" as legitimate. Obviously only snail mail can bring it legitimacy. Right ?

About the 2488 ... it's a nice toy but it's not only about features but the sheer joy (and ease) of operating the 388 or whatever Analog recording device. Plus, all of the signal is actually physically stored on tape. It's OLD SCHOOL recording. Ya can't beat that! But then again you already know that.

~Daniel