Yamaha MG102 Pros & Cons ??

[Dracon]

Hello:

I may want to upgrade from the UB802 to the Yamaha.
Can anyone tell me the pros and cons of the Yamaha MG102?
Why would I want it or why not?

[Blue Bear Sound]

Considering the Yamaha small-format mixers are significantly better in sound quality than the Behringers, I don't see a downside.....

[manning1]

dracon. if were me i would get a yamaha mg mixer - then later save up for ONE excellent mic pre for up front lead tracks in a mix.
reasearch sometime ...fmraudio.com, rane ms1b and great river and hardy mic pre's. also jlmaudio.com is an interesting site.

[Dracon]

Hey Blue Bear. What does small-format mixers mean? Is that referring to the size of the mixer or is that in referrence to some kind of internal working of the mixer?

yamaha mg mixer - I'll look it up manning see what it goes for.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by Dracon

Hey Blue Bear. What does small-format mixers mean? Is that referring to the size of the mixer or is that in referrence to some kind of internal working of the mixer?

yamaha mg mixer - I'll look it up manning see what it goes for.

"small-format" meaning the size/# of channels of the mixer. Contrast to large-format which refers to 48/54/96 channel full-size desks.

[Dracon]

Well, I have to say the consensus is for the Yamaha.
Sorry, manning when you said mg I thought you were talking about some other mixer (don't ask me why - but I didn't fully understand).

Everyone talks about the quality of the sound from the Yamaha vs. the Behringer. Can anyone put it into words? I've read the Behringer is not quiet, that it adds noise to the line. However, I do not have anything to compare it to.

Considering that I'm recording in a pretty noisy room, and that I'm going through an integrated sound card (not an audio card). When I record I do not hear any noise being added by the mixer. All the noise I was getting was from my soundcard (line-in input). If anyone can give me a comparison like it's the difference between Tape and CD or VHS and DVD.

[jimkal]

I have the MG10/2 and think it's a great mixer. However, one thing about this mixer that is not obvious when looking the specs over is that the 2TR inputs can only be sent to the stereo main bus. The other MG models will allow you to switch the 2TR inputs to another bus. What this means is that if you're sending the REC OUT outputs on the mixer to your DAW, then you can't route the outputs of the DAW back to the 2TR in the mixer in order to monitor the DAW. If you do, the entire output of the DAW will be mixed with what ever you have as inputs to the mixer. There are ways around this. I actually monitor using the AUX bux and send the outputs of the DAW to one of the mixer channels that supports RCA style inputs. Route the output of the DAW to the aux bus only and I'm all set.

One other limitation is that there are two AUX busses, but one is pre fader, the other is post fader. Probably not a big deal, but thought I'd just point it out.

[dr.colossus]

the difference between the behringer and the yamaha is def a matter of fidelity. The first thing i noticed when i swapped the behri for the yammi was how lillte e.q. i needed when using the yamaha. i could run things a little hotter without them muddiying up too much.. soundwise the yamaha absolutly floors the behringer...

yamaha cons- routing is a bit of a dog to work out.
the e.q. has a set mid (not sweepable)

the only other mixer i know well enough to compare it to is a sound craft folio, and in my opinion the yami is a little edgier than the scraft, the scraft has that "air" to its sound and is cleaner.

[Dracon]

Originally Posted by dr.colossus

the difference between the behringer and the yamaha is def a matter of fidelity. The first thing i noticed when i swapped the behri for the yammi was how lillte e.q. i needed when using the yamaha. i could run things a little hotter without them muddiying up too much.. soundwise the yamaha absolutly floors the behringer...

Okay, so now I understand what people are talking about. So that problem that I encountered with my voice sounding muddled was not me, but a 'feature' of the Behringer.
So the Yamaha would be clearer or as some people say transparent to the process.

[leddy]

I've owned both. Yamaha all the way. The pres are better than I expected. Behringer is garbage, IMO. The EQ on the Yamaha is not outstanding, but I don't really use it; I use it for phantom power and mic pres only.

I would describe the Yamaha as being quiet and clean without being too thin. The Behringer was too thin and noisy.

Downside to the Yamaha: not a ton of headroom, but you are not going to find that on any budget mixer or preamp. I have a Studio Projects VTB-1 which is usually regarded as a "decent" budget pre. It really does not sound much different than the Yamaha MG, IMO, unless you dial in a lot of the tube feature (which I don't). My next pre upgrade will probably be a RNP.

[Dracon]

Originally Posted by leddy

I would describe the Yamaha as being quiet and clean without being too thin. The Behringer was too thin and noisy.

Hey leddy - when talking about noise or that the behringer is noisy is that referring to white noise, static, or hissing which is captured in the recording?

Perhaps is due to my monitors or something else, but I don't find that my recordings have that much noise in them. I do admit that a considerable amount of EQ'ing goes on when I'm recording to get the best possible sound without getting that white noise to overpower everything. As for thin or I/m unable to compare it to the yamaha, but (and perhaps this maybe because of what I am recording - bass voice in soft spoken tones) does not seem too thin for me. However, I also turn down the MID & HI levels and that makes it a little warmer.

[djc]

I just bought the Yamaha MG16/6FX and love it. Although I didn't really need 16 channels, I bought it specifically because it had a sweepable mid on the 8 mic channels. Plus I got it for $319.00 because it was the demo unit on the shelf. They offered me a brand new Mackie, but I really wanted this particular Yamaha. I am very happy with it so far. Sounds good and is quiet.

[noisedude]

I still think that upgrading your onboard sound would reap a larger improvement than upgrading the mixer. However, as I keep saying, the Yamahas are way better than the Behringers for the money. When we started out you were on a very tight budget, now you seem ready to upgrade everything ... a little confusing when giving advice!!!

[leddy]

Originally Posted by Dracon

Hey leddy - when talking about noise or that the behringer is noisy is that referring to white noise, static, or hissing which is captured in the recording?

Perhaps is due to my monitors or something else, but I don't find that my recordings have that much noise in them. I do admit that a considerable amount of EQ'ing goes on when I'm recording to get the best possible sound without getting that white noise to overpower everything. As for thin or I/m unable to compare it to the yamaha, but (and perhaps this maybe because of what I am recording - bass voice in soft spoken tones) does not seem too thin for me. However, I also turn down the MID & HI levels and that makes it a little warmer.

It was white-noise-like but fairly high-pitched. More like a hiss. The thin-ness, I believe, was from a harsh, hyped high-end that Behringer gear seems to produce, and lack of headroom not really giving the mic what it needs to sound good.

I'm no expert, this is just my observation based on my experience.

[Dracon]

Originally Posted by noisedude

I still think that upgrading your onboard sound would reap a larger improvement than upgrading the mixer. However, as I keep saying, the Yamahas are way better than the Behringers for the money. When we started out you were on a very tight budget, now you seem ready to upgrade everything ... a little confusing when giving advice!!!

Hey noisedude. I know that I have questions out there about soundcards, and whether or not I should upgrade my Behringer with a Yamaha. Although, I have not upgraded anything yet, I am trying to asses ($50 more for a Yamaha or $100 more for an audiocard) which option may be better for me in the short term and in the long term.

As I said before I do not know where this is going (it could go nowhere fast), but for now it seems like it may be going somewhere. After my wife heard the first recording, she said that perhaps we didn't even need a Professional Recording studio (which would be fine with me). I informed her that in order for us to do that we would need to upgrade our equipment (get a real soundcard and a better mixer).
I have done some extensive EQ'ing and tested recording my acoustic guitar (to sample something other than my voice) at different angles as well as trying different locations in the room. Although, not unhappy with my equipment (which I think the microphone and cables are the best part of my whole equation) I would like to see some improvement.
Right now it's really hard for me to say let's spend $100 on a soundcard, when by mid January I may not even be using the equipment. An increment of $50 on top of what I already spent (by buying the Yamaha) is not that much of a stretch.

The beauty in life is that everything changes and all things remain the same. Changes can happen rapidly or slowly. I'm working with what I have for now, and trying to ask questions here in the BBS based on feedback that my wife is giving me on what she thinks she wants to do. The better informed I am about the equipement and it's capability the easier it will be for me to assess my wife on what we will or will not be able to do at home.

I know that I can go out tomorrow and buy $3,000 worth of equipment, and have a semi pro recording studio. However, that is the worst way to start a business, without doing any market research or knowing nothing about the business. I do not mean to confuse anyone with my questions. I like to learn from other people have learned, and hear their first hand accounts based on their experience.

[noisedude]

Hey - sorry if I came across wrong! Unless you are going really fast on this, I reckon you can cook with what you have, and that then your priority should be a soundcard. $50 spent is $50 spent, no matter when you do it. If you upgrade your mixer now, it will make that soundcard $50 harder to afford whenever you decide to go for it.

It's about now, with the new gear novelty wearing off, that you have to decide how much you want to learn about this to make it work for you. It could save you money, but it might be really boring at times. I'm sat in my bedroom surrounded by gear wondering the same thing ... shall I spend more money and spend months researching it, or squeeze the best I can from what I have. It sounds like you're going for a good balance in that respect.

[deepwater]

Go to American Musical and buy both a nice soundcard and mixer on the 3 month payment plan which should only be $100.00 a month for 3 months.

[Dracon]

Originally Posted by noisedude

Hey - sorry if I came across wrong! ... I'm sat in my bedroom surrounded by gear wondering the same thing ... shall I spend more money and spend months researching it, or squeeze the best I can from what I have. It sounds like you're going for a good balance in that respect.

Hey noisedude! Please don't mis-undestand me, I greatly appreciate your input and everyone else's input in this BBS. I've learned more here, than I could have by researching this topic on the internet. I know 'cause I looked around and I found some things here and there, but nothing to the extent and knowledge of the people here.

In fact, I talked to my wife today and she is 100% certain she wants to do this. She wants to record, and sell the CDs. She wants me to feel comfortable enough with our product to be able to sell the CDs at fairs or whatever. I explained to her the issue with CD-Rs and she is willing to put a warning label and offer a free-replacement guarantee to anyone who's CDs stop working due to sunlight or heat.

Anyway, after our talk today I explained to her what I've been educated from this forum. Basically I told her that for I would have to spend an additional $150 (+ tax) for the soundcard and the better mixer as a minimum.

Since my wife wants to start a business part of which would be us making the CDs and selling them, I do not want to start the business in the whole. Don't get me wrong I'll always enjoy the equipment one way or the other but I want to put the company in the red before it's even started.

[noisedude]

That's cool! Well ... start saving up then!

[Dracon]

I'll probably go to Guitar World this weekend take my Behringer with me and exchange it for the Yamaha MG102 and buy the Audiophile 2496 along with it, unless their Audiocard is priced high. Then I'll purchase it from ZZounds.

Anyhow, I'll also pick up a book or two on homerecording. I saw one at the store the other day, but it really did not seem to offer that much in the sense of technique, just a lot of technical details about how mic, mixers and equipment works overall.

[noisedude]

The Paul White one Music and Production Techniques is superb - enough depth to be worth reading, without giving you all the wrong answers, but really really helpful stuff. I have hardly put it down since getting it 18 months ago.

[Dracon]

Originally Posted by noisedude

The Paul White one Music and Production Techniques is superb -

Paul White.... Cool! I'll look into that one. I would like to see it before I buy it, to see if I'm going to like it. I'm a different animal than most people. I work in IT but I'm self taught. So the way that I work things, is get books that are technical and I use them as reference.

I really hate those books that go into the history of something, and who created it and how. I could really care less. If I cared, I would have looked it up, but I like books that go to the source of the issue.

Anyway, thanks again noisedude. I'll check out the book you are talking about and see some reviews about it. If I can pick it up and look at it somewhere I will.

[noisedude]

It's certainly not a book you'd dislike. I'm self-taught too and now that I'm studying this stuff properly at university it makes me wish I'd stuck with learning on my own!!

Paul White has a load of other books .. I got a little one about studio design and building recently to try and ease myself gradually into understanding room acoustics.

[Dracon]

Hey Folks

Thanks for all the information. I decided to get both the Yamaha MG10/2 and an audiocard. I went for the E-MU 0404 at first, but I saw that a lot of people were having software issues, and the one's that weren't did confess that the Creative Software is not easy to understand or use.

I went with the Delta 44. I love it, and I could not be happier, with the results that I had gotten. I first got the Yamaha and it made a significant difference from the Behringer U802. The Yamaha got rid of 90% of the signal hiss. I knew I was then limited by my soundcard.
I installed the Delta 44 and I could probably record a flee on a nat's ass wispering. The dam recording is so quiet that it's awsome.

My wife now (of course she says this everytime I upgrade the equipment) says we sound like a professional studio. I just nod, but I know we are a world away from that.
Anyway, thanks for everything.

[leddy]

Originally Posted by Dracon

Hey Folks

I first got the Yamaha and it made a significant difference from the Behringer U802. The Yamaha got rid of 90% of the signal hiss.

You realize, now, you are morally obligated to steer others away from Behringer, right?

Alright, just kidding. Behringer has its niche, just not in my house.

BTW, I've had the Delta 44 for many years now, and have had no problems and still feel no need to upgrade. Enjoy.