I need to buy a keyboard asap, please help me with some newbie questions :)

[Feanor IV]

Hi there,

First of all, excuse me for starting a new thread, rather than posting to the one I opened some days ago, but I feel like this is quite a deifferent subject... So, I'm totally lost, to begin with! I really need to buy a keyboard, to help me composing and arranging, and I also take harmony lessons, so I really need it to understand the differences between different orchestrations of the same melody... I was thinking of getting a synth, but I can only spend about 250$. So, someone suggested an M Audio Midi Keyboard, and I think it's a good idea, so I'm rather settled for something like that.... Now, the questions!

I was looking at:

M-Audio Radium61: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...um61-main.html
M-Audio Keystation 88es: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...88es-main.html
M-Audio Keystation 61es: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...61es-main.html
M-Audio MK-461C: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MK461C-main.html

In short, the differences are: 88es has 88 keys, while 61es has 61 (obviously) but apart from that, they're identical. Now, Radium61 has some more controllers, but it does not mention to have that "semi-weighted" thing. (the site mentions "61-note velocity-sensitive semi-weighted action" for 61es, and "61 keys" for Radium61). So, is this an important difference?? Now, MK-461 has some differences, but I really can't understand what's it all about, so I'd really need some help here...

Second thing. I have a crappy soundcard on my PC. I use a Digidesign M Box (consequently ProTools LE) to record my music. So, the question is, what MORE will I need to buy to produce some good sounds? I know that the midi keyboard is "just" the board, and the sounds are produced elsewhere, so what do I need to buy to use the keyboard?

I am intending to use the keyboard for the reasons I wrote before, and also I'd like to record to my computer (both MIDI files and audio files), but I really know nothing of the whole thing ("sequencing"?)

So, if anyone can help me out with this + recommend which of the four keyboards I should get, I'd really be very grateful! I'm really desparate here!!

Wishes from Greece,
Menelaos

[Atterion]

My money would be on the Radium 61, I have 2 and they are great for what they do. As far as semi-weighted keys, just a matter of preference. Some like Synth action (i.e. radium), some like Semi Weighted, and some like Full Weighted Hammer Action (I.e. real piano). No right or wrong, but I would suggest a trip to your local music store to try the differences. If you are real serious about Playing Pianos I would suggest Full Weighted. But if you just want something to mess around with and enter notes in your computer, The Radium would be fine (Plus all those realtime controllers are absolutely neccasary for working with software synthesizers in realtime).

For the full lowdown on soft synths, and a ton of free ones had on over to http://www.kvr-vst.com/

[Feanor IV]

Well, I'd like to get serious with the piano thing, but I suppose that Radium would be perfect to begin with. I can try something else if I wanna play a real piano..... Maybe when I have more money

Anyway, will I need anything else to use the keyboard, or are the keyboard and my computer enough?

[Atterion]

You should be pretty well set to get jamming. So go get your self some soft synths (You can start programming your sounds and playing them with your PC via onscreen keyboard until you get your actual controller). Search around for ProTools related links and forums to get more in-depth info on using soft synths in ProTools (I don't use ProTools, nor do I plan to anytime soon, I have most everything I need already). Good Luck!!! Your are diving head first into very deep waters. The world of Software and Hardware Synthesis is extremely vast, and by far the most technologically complex of them all. Let us know how it works out for you.

[tedluk]

I'm with Atterion. Of the four, the Radium offers the most controllers and, believe me, you're going to be glad you have them if you're working with softsynths. It gets very frustrating to have to continually stop playing to adjust a parameter with the mouse or keyboard.

I don't use Protools either, but my understanding has always been that it's kind of weak in the MIDI department. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Ted

[Feanor IV]

Ok, I bought it Now, forgive my stupid question, but will I need to buy anything more now? I have the (or at least will receive the) keyboard and I have the following stuff: Pro Tools LE, Reason ADAPTED (which comes with Pro Tools LE)..... So, any ideas now?

Cheers,
Menelaos

[Atterion]

Well thats a good start. You can add any other ReWire program like Reason (Like Cakewalk's Project 5, etc.). Or you can add RTAS plugins. Or head over to a place like KVR-VST and then get a VST to RTAS adapter (Or VST-ReWire adapter) like this http://www.fxpansion.com/product-rtasadapter-main.php , and download new synths, and effects, until your hearts content. You can always buy nice hardware sound modules, and better software as funds allow, but there is a TON of free stuff out there and there are some real gems out there that are free. Check out the likes of GreenOaks Crystal 2 or RGC Audios Triangle 2 plugins as an example.

As a personnal recommendation, I would suggest you look into the Fruity Loops program (Now called FL Studio). It is primarily aimed at looping musicians, but it hosts practically every known effects and instrument format there is (VST, VSTi, DX, DXi, Buzz Generators, etc.), and is now Rewire Compatible (Perfect for your ProTools LE/Reason setup). And can be used as a DXi or VSTi plugin itself. Basically the ultimate adapter for PC plugins, with a ton of cool intuitive features you won't find in any other program, a bunch of cool plugins included, and it is cheap (You can order all different versions depending on what you need). Check it out: http://www.fruityloops.com/English/frames.html

[tedluk]

Originally Posted by Feanor IV

Ok, I bought it Now, forgive my stupid question, but will I need to buy anything more now? ...
Menelaos

heheheheh...

If you only knew what you're getting yourself into...

You have unleashed the beast and it will consume you and all those around you!

(But you'll have a lot of fun in the meantime! )

Ted

[Feanor IV]

Ah, I'm getting to understand I mean, I someday made up my mind and began taking my vocal classes (I was thinking about it for YEARS). Then I wanted to record stuff in a better quality than with just a pc mic and I thought I'd buy a mic. This took me to my M-Box. I also started my harmony classes (Another thing I was looking forward to) and now I'll buy this keyboard. More lessons coming And I want to buy an oboe and learn how to play it someday But, shit, there are no cheap alternates to oboe......... You can't just buy a "midi oboe" for like 1/10th of the oboe price

[Feanor IV]

Originally Posted by Atterion

download new synths, and effects, until your hearts content. You can always buy nice hardware sound modules, and better software as funds allow, but there is a TON of free stuff out there and there are some real gems out there that are free. Check out the likes of GreenOaks Crystal 2 or RGC Audios Triangle 2 plugins as an example.

GREAT! But where do I find all this stuff??

[Atterion]

Too Funny Tedluk!!!
Feanor IV are you married??? You may wan't too make sure your relationship is in solid shape, before you go any further. Ever since I first sat down at the Piano, I have eat, sleeped, lived, breathed music for 21 years straight, and honestly can't remember but a small handful of days in those 21 years where I haven't sat down to play. Once you experience all those new sounds, it'll become like sonic therapy for you. You'll find yourself dreaming up new sounds during the day, while your at work (or school, or whatever), and spend most of your nights trying to achieve those sounds with all your wonderful new toys. And don't bother giving me the old "No, I'm a guitarist first and foremost, this will just be something I'll do inbetween". Bull!!! I'm a drummer first and foremost (Started playing drums long before I started Piano), and I've learned Bass, and guitar in the last 15 years to help break it up. Don't matter, Keys are the best. You might be able to fight it for sometime. But eventually it will consume you. Don't Fight It!!! You'll only make it harder on yourself.

[Feanor IV]

Hahahaha Well, I'd never say I'm a guitarist. I'm 100% of a vocalist, for as long as I can remember myself But maybe you're right, time will tell But at the moment I would never deny the fact that I'm so excited that FINALLY I'll have a keyboard at home!!!!

BTW, I'm not married And this makes things even worse - with all this music I'll never talk anyone into marrying me

[Atterion]

HaHaHa,
And you'll never have anyone talking you out of buying that brand new shiny synth with all those knobs to twist. I envy you my friend.

[Atterion]

Follow the KVR link I posted at the top if this thread. At the site click the big Instruments, Effects, Hosts, Etc. Button on the left. You get a search engine where you can filter out what your looking for (i.e. Type of plugin, Free, PC, sort by date released etc.). TONS of stuff there. you need to spend some time there. Register at the KVR forums as well. Thats all we talk about over there (By we, I mean mostly other people, I spend little time there, but for someone just getting started in this, that place is perfect. I wish I had known about it when I first got started). There are a couple of sticky threads there that have practically links to every music related sites ever. Good Stuff!!!

[Feanor IV]

Originally Posted by Atterion

HaHaHa,
And you'll never have anyone talking you out of buying that brand new shiny synth with all those knobs to twist. I envy you my friend.

Nah, don't, I have a girlfriend

[Feanor IV]

Hey by the way, suggest a few good plugins (pref. free for the time being) I need to download

[Atterion]

OK I'm not too sure about any free RTAS plugins (ProTools' Native Format). There are a ton of awesome expensive plugins (i.e. almost anything made by Native Instruments). So get your self a VST to RTAS adapter and go find the 2 plugins I mentioned above, and here are 5 more links to check out for freebies, then I'm cutting you loose brother, you'll be on your own (Although we'll always be here to help).

Novakill Synths: http://www.novakill.com/killerz.htm
EVM Synths: http://www.sinte-virtual.com/evmsynths/free.htm
Elogoxa: http://www.uv.es/~ruizcan/principal.htm
Land Of Cockaigne: http://www.funkelectric.com/~cockaigne/
Guido: http://www.soundfonts.it/

KVR also has some freeware stand-alone VST hosts available. until you get an adapter of some sorts.
Go check em out have a blast!!!

[Atterion]

Duh, I forgot, the Radium comes with a VST host, as well as some other adapted software (Like Live M-Audio Edition).