Rigid edges on accoustic panels

[Innovations]

Some of my son's friends were looking for an idea for an enterprize. Having a relatively cheap source of 703 nearby and seeing how much others are charging for accoustic panels and foam that doesn't really work all that well i suggested that they think about selling premade fabric-covered 703 panels. But some issues have cropped up.

1. If you were buying premade panels how important is it that they have rigid edges? How much extra are rigid edges worth? What way would you go about putting rigid edges on a 703 panel?

2. 2 by 4 seems the logical size of the panel, but no matter how light the panel is it immediately gets you into oversize UPS rates. Selling two 2 by 2 panels might be in the net less expensive even though the panels themselves cost more. Is a pair of 2x2 panels give the impression of being not as worthwhile as a single 2x4 panel. Do people pay attention to shipping and net total cost?

[TexRoadkill]

After adding up the final costs you will probably find out why a lot of acoustic treatments seem overpriced.

1. You are going to need a frame for hanging and to attach the fabric. That adds weight, materials and time. I was trying to find some type of ready made 2x4 frame that was cheaper then building one out of 1"x 1/2" but I never found anything that would work.

2. I doubt 2'x2' would be that big of a deterrent.

[mshilarious]

Here's one of your competitors:

http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/p.../alphasorb.asp

As you can see, fasteners can be as simple as velcro.

I also have a cheap supplier of materials, even surplus materials, but the couple of times I'm asked here nobody seemed interested. I'm guessing people can either source their own material, or they are happy paying for foam, I don't know.

[fitZ2]

When you start purchasing panels for the back, then you will begin to realize some things. Purchase it by the sheet retail, and see the price jump on your product. Purchase it wholesale by the unit and then you realize you have to move it to a saw ECONOMICALLY. Try moving a unit of 1/4" Ply. Or even 1/8". All of a sudden you need a forklift and room to store and move it. Then try cutting 4'x8' panels into smaller panels that are SQUARE. Then you realize you need a panel saw. And CHEAP ones don't cut square. Try lining up ten panels side by side, that are out of square, even by 1/16th and see what happens. Then you need a shop vac system as saw dust FILLS the shop and are explosive. Then industrial blades. Then you start on the frame. What lumber? KILN DRIED wood of ANY spiecies isn't cheap, even by wholesale standards. Thats why MOST wood product manufactures purchase ROUGH oversize material to be competitive. Now you need a PLANER. But you can ONLY plane within a 1/32" of S2S because of TEAR OUT. Now you need an industrial belt sander MACHINE, not hand held. Now you need to RIP the lumber to nominal size. Table saw time. But when you cut it, the blade leaves SAW MARKS. Now you need a jointer to S4S . Now you have to ease all edges. BY HAND. Labor costs begin to creep in. Then insurance. Then Workmans comp. And a bookeeper So you go to sheet goods for the frame instead. What do you use? Veneered panels? Ply? Masonite? Melamine? MDF? They all require their own brand of blade, machining, handling, and fastening.And then the corners. How to assemble? Lock miters? Butt joints? Cleats? Mechanical fasteners? Glue? Screw? How bout the back. Exposed edges? Rabbited into frame to keep it square? How about hangers? And fastening the fabric. How do you deal with the corners? ETC ETC ETC

And the waste. What do you do with it. Call waste management. More costs. Then packageing. Where do you get pre-sized cardboard boxes. And how much. Printed? More costs. Delivery to ? More costs.
And thats not even working with the fabric and fiberglass yet

Ain't mass produced woodworking fun?
fitZ

[Innovations]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

Here's one of your competitors:

http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/p.../alphasorb.asp

As you can see, fasteners can be as simple as velcro.

I also have a cheap supplier of materials, even surplus materials, but the couple of times I'm asked here nobody seemed interested. I'm guessing people can either source their own material, or they are happy paying for foam, I don't know.

Yes, that is one of the sites that they are looking at, and in fact they are one of the least expensive. But with 703 running about 60 cents per square foot per inch thickness and the fabric running maybe fifteen dollars a yard there really isn't a whole heck of a lot of materials cost there...and these don't have wooden edge, in fact the price listed there does not even have a hardened edge or a radius edge. They are just a piect of fiberglass covered in cloth.

[gvarko]

Originally Posted by Innovations

1. If you were buying premade panels how important is it that they have rigid edges? How much extra are rigid edges worth? What way would you go about putting rigid edges on a 703 panel?

2. 2 by 4 seems the logical size of the panel, but no matter how light the panel is it immediately gets you into oversize UPS rates. Selling two 2 by 2 panels might be in the net less expensive even though the panels themselves cost more. Is a pair of 2x2 panels give the impression of being not as worthwhile as a single 2x4 panel. Do people pay attention to shipping and net total cost?

Rigid edges of no concern, 2X2 is fine, yes people do care about shipping. IMO it's better to up the cost of the product and offer free shipping. There is some mental logic that people use that says free shipping is a better deal. Just my 2cents..