Pre Amps With Ribbon Mic

[borntoplease]

hey... i am thinking of getting a ribbon mic, not sure yet, still looking, but i like the price of the ML-52. i think it would be good first ribbon mic for me... anyway... i was wondering if the pres in my midas venice board will be enough for the mic or will i need something more? if i need an out board pre, what goes well with a ribbon mic. i suppose something transparent would be best, so as not to effect the natural coloration of the ribbon... if you have any ideas let me know
thanks in advance...

[Blue Bear Sound]

I suggest one of the Great River pres..... I find ribbons need a good pre to get the best results.

[borntoplease]

so i assume youre saying the pres in the midas arent good enough... btw... what time is it there in canada?

[HWB]

Originally Posted by borntoplease

so i assume youre saying the pres in the midas arent good enough... btw... what time is it there in canada?

There is a four hour difference in time between western and eastern Canada. Canada is a very large country, much larger than the USA. What if I ask, "what time is it in the USA?" I live in eastern Canada which is four hours ahead of western Canada. "What time is it in Canada???)

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by borntoplease

so i assume youre saying the pres in the midas arent good enough...

Not exactly... they'll work, but ribbon mics generally need pres that provide a lot of gain - something that on-board pres may not always provide very well, which is why I suggested the Great River.

Originally Posted by borntoplease

what time is it there in canada?

Ottawa, ON is on DST right now, so we're an hour ahead of Austin, Texas.....

And no - we don't all live in igloos -- and I drive a Pontiac GTP, not a team of sled dogs!

[xstatic]

Blue Bear is right about ribbon mics needing lots of gain. Also, the Great River preamp would be a killer pre, and not just for a ribbon mic. However, the Midas Venice has alot of headroom. Gain wise, it should be plenty. I took my Royer 121 out on a live show the other day. On my Midas Verona I actually had to pad the premp. Of course this was also on a loud 100 watt Mesa Boogie stack.

If you can afford a Great River pre, you won't regret it. Personally, I had a client bring in one of those Oktava ribbon mics one day. I used it (along with another mic) because he had always "loved the way it sounded". I myself didn't like the way it sounded at all. There just seemed to be no clarity to it at all. I have a Royer 121 and absolutely love it on many different things, but especially electric guitars and certain acoustics. The problem here is that the royer is gonna cost about the same as 1 channel of Great river preamp, which is going to be a little over $1000. My gut says the Royer will sound much better with your Midas preamps than the Oktava will with a Great River. Then again, if you had the Great River you would have a really nice preamp for other things also. If it were me, I would make sure you got the best monitors you could possibly afford, then make sure you have a nice solid mic collection. Since the Midas pre's and EQ's are so nice, I wouldn't think too heavily about other preamps until after you get good monitors and mics. Once you do, I would seriously consider something like the Great River preamp. The Great river is a beautiful sounding, incredibly flexible preamp, and would be an excellent "first outboard preamp".

[Teacher]

a good ribbon mic pre could be the A-designs MP2r. This version of the mp2 was helped designed by Royer SPECIFICALLY for ribbon MICS

Xtatic you tryna make home boy go bankrupt?

[xstatic]

Not trying to make anyone go bankrupt at all. I have however learned though that buying the right gear the first time (even though it may seem expensive at first) is actually far cheaper than buying something that you end up having to resell later just to turn around and buy what you should have the first time.

[fenix]

make sure you hit the phantom power for some extra gain boost.

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by fenix

make sure you hit the phantom power for some extra gain boost.

What?!

To my understanding the only Mic that needs phantom power are Condenser MICs w/o a dedicated power source. While phantom power doesn't efx dynamics, ribbons and tube condenser with dedicated PSU

[Blue Bear Sound]

I think he was kidding, teach!

[xstatic]

Not a very nice joke to the person reading that doesn't know how phantom power can affect ribbon mics. Especially when we are talking about an Oktava that may not be built too well and probably comes with a manual thats in some Russian dialect.

[Cloneboy Studio]

The Focusrite ISA 428's have variable impedence settings which allow you to tailor them to specific mics such as ribbon microphones.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Or the Groove Tubes ViPre....

[borntoplease]

yeah, i got the joke about the phantom power... ive heard horror stories...
im gonna look into some other ribbon mics... i just dont want to spend a shit load right now... but hey, i agree, buy good equipmet the first time... save money in the long wrong. i am actually am in a sweet position because i am not having to front the money for my gear. i convinced my dad that a home studio would further my schooling and only help me in the long run. so, because he has agreed to pay for my school and all expenses, the home studio is now considered a school expense... i dont know how much i have to work with, but he told me to get the most bang for the buck... i figure if i keep it under 6k he shouldnt freak out... i realize that i am VERY lucky to be in this position. but my dad is a music lover and a profesional musician, so i think he kinda understands how it is. anyway... enough about me.

and i was wondering what time it was in canada because at the time i made my last post it was about 4:30am here in austin, tx... central time. i was wondering how late/early it was there...

cheers... gotta get to class

[Cloneboy Studio]

The Vipre is pretty expensive though. The ISA 428's are 1700 bucks for four channels of pretty darn good preamp.

[Henri Devill]

The ViPre is very nice but a little pricey..The Great River works great also with ribbons{well most anything}..The Grace 101 comes as a extra gain ribbon pre also..I don't know anything about the Oktava ML52 it could be nice or it could sound like ass..if its the later then no pre is gonna save it IMHO

[fenix]

Originally Posted by xstatic

Not a very nice joke to the person reading that doesn't know how phantom power can affect ribbon mics. Especially when we are talking about an Oktava that may not be built too well and probably comes with a manual thats in some Russian dialect.

It was certainly a joke. And if you own a ribbon mic and you do not know that phantom can be hazardous to most ribbons, then you shouldn't be using one.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by fenix

It was certainly a joke. And if you own a ribbon mic and you do not know that phantom can be hazardous to most ribbons, then you shouldn't be using one.

Check out September's issue of mix. A couple of good articles on ribbons. In one article Wes Dooley mentions that phantom power is usually ignored by ribbon mics and won't cause dmage unless you have a shorted cable.

Other than a short they can also be damaged by plugging one in while phantom power is on since the ends of the cable aren't guaranteed to go in at the same time.

During one of my recent classes a student plugged a Beyer M130 into the board while the phantom power was on (while I wasn't looking). No damage done though. No use taking chances, since they don't need it, leave it off.

Also, don't expose ribbons to large SPLs, and wind. These can also damage a ribbon

[Teacher]

yea... don't use Ribbon mics for Rap Vox unless you want to break your ribbon and want shitty sounding vocals

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

Also, don't expose ribbons to large SPLs

...unless they're designed to tolerate it, such as the Beyer M160.....

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

...unless they're designed to tolerate it, such as the Beyer M160.....

I'm a big fan of this mic. I've heard that Glyn Johns used it for overheads on John Bonham's drum kit.

[xstatic]

The Royers are designed for large SPL's as well. At least they better be. I stick mine right up in some pretty loud guitar cabs

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

I'm a big fan of this mic. I've heard that Glyn Johns used it for overheads on John Bonham's drum kit.

For those interested I found this, on another in board I heard that they were used as overheads as well (correction: Andy, might have been Glyn as well):

Great, great, great article it Tape op magazine #39 Jan/Feb 2004 on Andy Johns. The drums for Levee were recorded in the front hallway of Headley Grange, using 2 Beyer M160 mics on the staircase going up to the landings and upper floors(it was kinda like the entrance to a fancy hotel). Andy then compressed those(Helios compressors in the soundboard) and also used a Binson Echorec(echo unit) that Page owned. Brought that up in the compressor, too. So those mics were placed on stairs, distant from Bonzo's kit on the floor of the hallway. Just 2 mics. Again, Johns was marveled by how Bonzo tuned his drums, and he was trying to capture what he was hearing as he stood next to the kit in the room...so they moved the drums to the hallway, instead of where the had them in the main living room, where they tracked tunes like Rock and Roll, and tried distant mic'ing.

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by xstatic

The Royers are designed for large SPL's as well. At least they better be. I stick mine right up in some pretty loud guitar cabs

I think its more or less loud transients you have to worry about ruining the ribbon.