A better sequencer

[termnl]

This should be the right forum, im guessing...haha.

Right now im using an old academic ver of Vegas for tracking...just set up my DAW and had been using an old BOSS unit for drums....I just dump .wav files to tracks. Decided to snag BFD for some better sound and just sequence it with an old copy of Synapse Orion....and im not very happy with it...haha.

So what im looking for is a sequencer that will host BFD (VSTi, DXi, ReWire), facilitate time/tempo changes (I would really like a seperate time/tempo map), and one that will render my sequenced tracks to .wav.

My wallet will appreciate it if I dont upgrade to cubase or the like at the moment....so if there is a nice standalone, that would do the trick.

Thanks.

[ssscientist]

I use Tracktion:

http://www.mackie.com/products/tracktion/

You can download a fully functional demo and if you like it as much as I do it costs $80 for a copy.

It has good midi and audio functionality, is rewire capable and supports VST plugins. And yes, it will allow you to render your sequenced tracks to WAV's.

[termnl]

Thanks ssscientist.
I guess I forgot to mention that im looking for something that has a built-in piano roll editor as well. I dont have any midi gear.....just looking to replace my drum machine.
Looks like a nice prog otherwise.....thanks again.

[Emusic]

Cubase is a brilliant sequencer (my choice)
Logic has a steep learning curve and is Mac only but is said to be great
Sonar is great
ProTools is a hardware/software package that is somewhat weaker on midi but the 6.7 version coming soon is said to be stronger on midi.

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by termnl

just looking to replace my drum machine

There's a sampler plugin that comes with the factory version of Tracktion that's a fine replacement for a drum machine. Lets you assign a different sound to each key on the keyboard up the midi note limit of 127.

[TimOBrien]

Cubase SE is only $99.

48audio tracks/unlimited MIDI tracks. Not much it doesn't do...

[termnl]

All good advice....still not what im wanting though. Thanks, emusic, but I cant really afford any of the setups you mentioned at the moment.

Maybe I should describe what im used to.....this is on the BOSS unit I have been using.
You open your pattern editor, specify the time sig of that pattern, then program the hits on a step sequencer that is similar to a piano roll editor.

Then you open the song editor and string together a series of blocks that represent your patterns.

Then if you, for example, were using 6/4@120bpm for the first 55 measures and 6/8@170bpm for the next 20 measures, you would go into the tempo map and specify the time/tempo switch at measure 56.

Now I can accomplish this right now with the multitracker.....I just dump each section that is the same time/tempo to a .wav, zoom in, and snap each section together.....which is fine for the rough mixes since Im only dumping a stereo mix out of Orion.....but it gets to be tedious at the final mixes because BFD uses 14 channels that I dump to wavs in order to mix them in the mutitracker.

Thanks again for your help.

[termnl]

Tim....will Cubase SE run that setup in my post above?

[manning1]

termnl. you might want to try the demo of what i use powertracks at pgmusic.com. 49 bucks for 48 tracks. heres a listing of several of many audio and midi features.....(note..for pc only)
1. editing of velocity dynamics.
2.drum grid editor velocity values. plus triplet feel.
3. handling jazz swing music. jazz fonts.
4. channel filtering and rechannelling .
5.gradual increases/decreases in tempo. tempo mapping.
6. editing of note durations.
7. 5 beat grouping of notes.
8. guitar fretboard display showing notes being played, and notation for guitarists.
very usefull for midi guitarists.
guitar tracks printed out in guitar tab format
9. printing blank staff pages.
10. slash chord ability eg..Cm/g
11. audio track de-essing and hum filter and noise gating.
12. interpreting chords from an imported midi file.
13. editing of sysex messages.sysex delay handling for synths that need it.
14. filling tracks with a drum style pattern either preset or your own making.
15. on screen pitch bender if the musician doesnt have a synth
with pitch bend.
16. jukebox KAR feature.
17. a slew of effects presets for various types of audio tracks..
like vocals, guitar, bass, drums etc etc
18. very detailed notation editing, and printing features.
including lead sheet production.
ive just scratched the surface of features.
and not even mentioned things like handling sound card latency,
endless looping, and all the other audio recording and editing features.
the product can take one through the whole song process from idea creation, through recording, mixdown and to CD.
you can also read the free tutorials in the support section.
as well as videos. also check out band in a box. used by thousands of musicians and educators. i think youll be impressed.
peace.

[NYMorningstar]

Here's about 50 reasons you shouldn't use powertracks
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/bmanningmusic.htm

[MadAudio]

Now, now. That's like blaming the saw if you make a bad cut. You can't blame Powertracks for making those mixes so flat and lifeless.

[manning1]

termnl. here are USER REVIEWS independent of me.
scroll down the page to near the end.
notice the 5 star rating !! i dont lie !!

http://www.music123.com/PG-Music-Po...33678.music?t=4

[salsamac]

Originally Posted by NYMorningstar

Here's about 50 reasons you shouldn't use powertracks
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/bmanningmusic.htm

lol ,you bad hehe

[Huck Hobo]

if you like traktion, you can get a legit copy on ebay for under 35 bucks. they were donated to some foundation to sell for a fundraiser.

hh

[allrics]

Maybe PowerTracks could have helped your vocals! That's horrible!!!!!!

[manning1]

which song didnt you like ? a lot of those songs i did before powertracks by the way. i KNOW i'm not the best vocallist but from the emails i receive most people find at least a couple of songs they really like.
i would like to know which song you didnt like....as i'm compiling a list
of which ones people have complemented me on and which ones they didnt like. by the way the new powertracks version has vocal pitch correction and harmonisation in it. but i feel its cheating to use such tools. peace.

[allrics]

Manning, it wasn't your songs but the other guys top 50.

[manning1]

maybe i'm not with it allrics this morning.. is it that your saying you found his comments not nice ? frankly i dont care. each person can have their own opinion. some people like my songs others dont. i just years ago did what i could with those songs. often under very tight constraints.
many people have done great stuff with powertracks. visit the pg musicians
web site sometime.

[steve350]

I think PowerTracks 9.0 is the best bargain out there for beginners to semi-pro musicians. $49.00 is an unbelievable deal.

[steve350]

I think PowerTracks 9.0 is the best bargain out there for beginners to semi-pro musicians. $49.00 is an unbelievable deal.

[wakeupbomb]

Originally Posted by Emusic

Cubase is a brilliant sequencer (my choice)
Logic has a steep learning curve and is Mac only but is said to be great
Sonar is great
ProTools is a hardware/software package that is somewhat weaker on midi but the 6.7 version coming soon is said to be stronger on midi.

LOGIC IS AWESOME!!! hehehe I love using Logic for MIDI, however it's like $800 or something, and the newest versions only work with mac, but it's sooooo cool! You get a bunch of shit with it (an awesome sampler, some cool synths, some electric pianos etc) and it gives you a bunch of different editing options from a score editor, to a piano roll (Matrix editor it's called), and like 10 others. It does audio too, but not very well. If you have the money, or can find a cheaper version somewhere I would jump on it. It does have a pretty steep learning curve but once you learn the basics everything starts to fall into place.

Pro Tools 6.7 still isn't very good with the MIDI. It's ok, but I would use almost anything else before I used Pro Tools MIDI (maybe not, because that is what I do use now...hmmm...I don't like it though, when I can afford Logic I'll be getting that).

Haven't used many of the other programs, but I'm sure they do the trick.

[termnl]

Wow....haha. I havent been watching this one.....been too busy playing the quantize game from the master controller...

Thanks manning1. Ill take a look at powertracks tonight. Im pretty happy with Vegas as far as my 'digital tape' goes....but the price is right, as id just be using it for a drum machine.

If not, I am about ready to put my d/a needs on hiatus for a while and just go get a set of pads...ha. Of course, then I would have about a years worth of drum tracks that sound like theyre being banged out by a five year old....but hey, ya lose some..

[termnl]

Oh yeah.....and thanks, wakeupbomb....but I think Logic is overkill for me. Besides, im pretty partial to my amd64 for tracking.

Did they ever make a demo for Logic PC? I would definitely be willing to check it out.

(nm...I see there was no demo. well theres always the random good deal)

[wakeupbomb]

I don't know if Logic ever had a PC demo or not....hmmm...that's a good question.

I know that before Logic 6 the full program was offered on PC, but right before 6 came out Apple bought Emagic (the manufacturer of Logic) and turned it into a Mac only application. If you can find a copy of Logic 5 or below you'd be golden. It's a little old (probably 2 years or so) but I'm sure it would work fine.

[termnl]

Thanks for the reply.....long post time...

Yeah....5.51 was the last version and they never made a demo.

They actually have an update on the site that is a full installer for 5.51 PC.....but I would need their dongle to run it.....anyway...

Let me specify what im used to....since you are a Logic fan, maybe you can compare. I would be willing to spring for a used copy. Im a picky bastard....and I have SCOURED various forums looking a program that is capable of pulling this off standalone.

Gotta host a VSTi...just one. BFD needs programming....everything else is controller material.

I would like it to render to .wav. Considering BFD can have multiple outputs, I need to be able to render each output to a seperate file. I dont really need a mixer.....that will be done elsewhere.

Ok so the number of sequencers that do that borders infinity.....heres the hard part...with some background....

BOSS takes the drum programming award IMHO. You have 3 sections.....a pattern editor, a song editor, and a time/tempo map. You make your loops in the pattern editor and you arrange them in the song editor.....kids stuff. The real winner here that I havent been able to find in ANY software sequencer is the fact that the song itself doesnt carry a specific time/tempo.

Let me give this unrealistic example that a BOSS unit can pull off. You have this song of epic length...4 measures of 3/4@120bpm, 1 measure of 3/8@11bpm, 8 measures of 7/8@120bpm.
You go into the pattern editor, dial the time to 3/4, hit the step sequencer, dial out the pattern name, dial the tempo to 120, dial out the pattern...then repeat for the others with appropriate time/tempo. .
Hit the song editor, dial up the name, dial up 4 blocks of the 3/4, 1 block of the 3/8, then 8 blocks of the 7/8.
Pull up the time/tempo map, dial up meas 1 to 3/4@120, meas 5 to 3/8@11, and meas 6 to 7/8@120.

Fantastic. I now I can plug in the midi, put the track on any VSTi host/editor in the universe, and add vel/timing randomization to my hearts content. The major downfall lies in my copious use of the word 'dial'....

So thats about what im looking for. Hell, I could even dig something like Reason's Redrum module....except that it wont load a VSTi or automate tempo.

So with that said, how's Logic?
Am I doomed to carpal tunnel, courtesy of the infamous dial?
Or is total insanity, courtesy of quantize, on the menu this evening?
haha

Thanks again