Rane MS1b

[JKestle]

Hello All

I'm looking into this unit, I just have a couple questions I can't find answers to.

Features
• 120 dB dynamic range
• Gain Control
• Signal / Overload Indicator
• Polarity Switch
• Switchable 48 V Phantom Power
• True differential Input
• Cross-coupled line driver
• UL/CSA/CE and 100/120/230 VAC remote power supply

1) Could this unit be considered a step up from DMP3 on a per-channel basis?
(forget about the metering)

2) I have a Delta 44 with balanced TRS ins. Would it be better to:
A) Get a xlr>trs cable (rane xlr out to delta trs in),
OR
B) Send Rane xlr out to line mixer and directly out insert trs to delta trs in.
(bypassing mixer eq/faders, mixer gain=0)

3) Any other general thoughts or experience with this unit are extreamly welcome.

Thanks

[turnitdown]

This IS about the best sounding pre for the money in my opinion, as a clean uncolored preamp... Also, the Symetrix SX-202 (used) is right there with it.

Forget the TOOB stuf in this price range... really...

[manning1]

jk. really you have to demo both the rane and dmp side by side.
and draw your own conclusions. its difficult to hear whats inside your head. we all have personal prefs. me personally i would be happy with a rack full of ranes. but wouldnt do it as i like mic pre's of different textures for varaiety.
which is why i build my own diy mic pre;s. but i'd be very surprised if you
were not happy with rane. ive yet to hear a negative word about it.
on hookup. try option 2a. no reason to go through another piece of gear imho.
peace.

[JKestle]

Is there such thing as too clean of a pre for hard rock music?

I've come across opinions that coloured pre amps are prefered for dirty grundgy rock.

I personally don't believe this to be the case. The dirty grundge should come from the sources, agree?

[turnitdown]

Agree... If you only have $$ for one preamp, it should be a CLEAN one...

[SonicAlbert]

In answer to your routing question, I would take the output of the Rane directly to the soundcard. In other words, keep it as direct as possible and avoid routing through additional gear if you don't have to. The difference in sound can sometimes be surprising.

There may be reasons to route through the mixer, mostly if you need to for convenience reasons. But the cleanest way to do it would be to run the signal through as little circuitry as possible.

[JKestle]

XLR > 1/4" TRS cable is the way to go, thanks!

So a cable with balanced connectors, whether XLR on both ends or a combination of XLR & 1/4"TRS, is of the same quality?

In other words:
XLR > TRS = same as XLR to XLR

[Dot]

I love the Rane MS1b. I have one in my rack along side of a bunch of high-end pres. The MS1b is sort of like a Jr. John Hardy. It's really great for acoustic stuff. I would not recommend it for heavy rock.

In that price range for hard rock you'd get a lot more mileage of of a Studio Projects VTB-1 - which also has a DI. The MS1b does not have a DI.

If you can step up your budget a bit, the M-Audio Tampa runs around $399. A better step up and includes a good opto comp and digital out.
http://store.yahoo.com/humbucker/mmtampa.html

And I've even heard some good hard rock stuff recorded with an ART Tube MP - which happens to have a pretty mean DI for bass.

And the DMP3 is a totally decent pre. I'd easily choose it over the MS1b for rock.

[JKestle]

What specifically is it about the MS1b that is not good for rock?

Too Clear? Too dynamic? Too touchy?

I don't understand the reasoning DOT.

[manning1]

jk. i think he means its a very clean pre. thats what i liked about it.
if you want grungy character in a pre look at something else.

[cradlefish]

If you are willing to spend a couple of hundred bucks. I highly recommend the Brick from Groove Tubes. It's an all tube mic pre with DI and it sounds great! Warm, full and very clear sounding! The DI is sounds great as well! 400.00. It's built like a tank and it's real tube! Definitely worth checking out!

[JKestle]

To clear up, you are saying I should look at a pre that will complement the musical style I will be recording. This I understand.

What I'm unsure about, is what a "grundgy" pre (VTB-1) will add to a recording to improve it, that a clean pre (MSb1) will not?

If I have grundy equipment (guitar amps, bass amps, etc...), wouldn't a clean pre capture the natural harmonics better?

This is my first and only pre amp (besides the 6 line mixer preamps), I'm hesitating to comit to something that will colour the sound too much.

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by JKestle

What I'm unsure about, is what a "grundgy" pre (VTB-1) will add to a recording to improve it, that a clean pre (MSb1) will not?

If I have grundy equipment (guitar amps, bass amps, etc...), wouldn't a clean pre capture the natural harmonics better?

I tend to subscribe to your theory, here. It's perfectly logical and reasonable.

The whole idea behind using a quote-unquote colored pre for rock music is for one of two reasons: a) You want something a little less accurate to help smooth out some of the rough, jagged edges. Or on the opposite end: b) You want something to help make it sound edgier.

Either goal has it's place, obviously, but if you're careful to work with what you have, then it makes sense to track it just the way it is and get it right at the source, using mic selection and placement, eq, etc. to get you where you want.

If you need to fuzz something up a little, you can always try the Tchad Blake method of re-amping it or running a parallel track through a sansamp or something and mix it in just a little with the original. Any number of things you can do to fuzz something up a little or to give it an edge. It takes some extra work and a little more creativity, though.

I personally think it's a much better method than using the kind of murky fuzz you get out of a starved plate toob deal like the VTB-1.

[JKestle]

thanks chessrock, your a gentleman and a scholar.

Any one else care to wiegh in on the issue at hand?

Pros and Cons - Clean vs. Dirty single channel Pre in digital hard disk Rock recording.

[Dot]

Originally Posted by JKestle

What specifically is it about the MS1b that is not good for rock?

Too Clear? Too dynamic? Too touchy?

I don't understand the reasoning DOT.

Actually, the MS1b just doesn't sound full enough. It would be an excellent pre if you wanted to record some acoustic guitars and vocals or some bluegrass instruments.

If you use it for hard rock your tracks will sound thin. The MS1b doesn't have a lot of low end.

[chessrock]

It just has a roll-off at about 50-60 hz.

Which probably won't work for recording elephant or whale mating calls. But for most stuff, it's actually a good thing.

Just use something else on bass guitar (or just run it direct) and kick drum. There's probably stuff going on down there you're going to want for those tracks. But no, it's not a "thin sounding" pre, per say.

[Dot]

chessrock, what instruments have you tracked using an MS1b?

[chessrock]

Under snare . . . scratch vocal . . . basically wherever I need a spare channel. I do like to pull it out on accoustic guitar or hand percussion every now and then, and it works really well for that, so I agree with you there.

Other than that, I guess I have at one time or another tracked just about everything through it for shits and/or giggles. Again, not the ideal tool for kick or bass -- I'll definitely give you that. But I don't think of it as a "thin"-sounding pre, no.