Well, I'm no Jesse M. Garcia, but I try hard...

[chrisharris]

I wrote this song this week and posted it on another site as an acoustic song begging for contributions. The end result makes for perhaps the most musically chaotic outro ever to escape my DAW. Most of the people playing on this are guys that I originally "met" over here at HR.com...this project reminded me of what this place SHOULD be about, which is helping each other make our homemade crap sound better.

Anyway, I'd appreciate some opinions on the low end/low mids, or anything else that sounds out of whack, because I am in the middle of mixing it.

"WHIMPER" (4th Song From The Bottom)
www.nowhereradio.com/honestmango/singles


Drums - WATYF
Clean Electric/Slide - FrederickFM
Bass - Trojka
Electric Wah Outro - Sluice
Melodica - Skids

[vestast]

Hey Chris. I can't listen to any nowhere songs at work because it's blocked, but I managed to grab it over at RP.

I've been following this tune since you first posted it. I have to say that I really like the dryness on your voice. It's a nice change from how you usually mix your voice (not a complaint).

Sorry I can't comment on the mix right now as I'm on headphones. One thing I do notice though and again it might just be the headphones is that the slide parts seem to be to far back. Not during the outro, but it might sound nicer with some of the other slide parts in the tune brought forward a bit.

If you want I can give it a listen for the low end when I'm home tonight since I have a sub on my DAW.

Nice work all around. I should have contributed also. I actually did download the original tune and started to work on it, but got involved in some other things and by the time I got back to it you already had a slew of contributions. My loss

Oh and you're right - You are no Jesse Garcia.

Later !

Dave

[invisiblenemies]

This song is quite solid all the way through. It's not really the type of music I listen to, but I appreciated it nonetheless.

I thought the mix was done well overall. I thought the slide (panned right) could be brought up in the mix a little throughout the majority of the song. The vocals were right on - I love the sound you got.

If it was up to me (which it's not ) I would retrack the wah outro. There are a few parts that seem a little shakey from a timing/groove standpoint. The end of the song creates such a mellow mood a lot of people would probably jsut add a simpler lead to it. I love the idea of calm and crazy juxtapositioned in the outro. It's fantastic.

Good work.

[mshilarious]

Very good. I'm on computer speakers, can't help with mix with than basic problems of which I don't hear any.

How about a viola? There is a guitar back in the mix that keeps implying a midrange string tone, and it makes me want to actually hear it. Like right underneath that first guitar break to before the slide/wah solos start.

Sorry I don't play viola

Also how about harmony vocals on the chorus?

On the outro I'd lower the level of the wah and raise the slide and make them fight it out, like Duane & Eric on the outro to Layla.

[chrisharris]

Hey, thanks a ton...these are very helpful. I brought the slide up throughout, and

mshilarious - you're right..there's a clean guitar tucked over on the left that kinda' has a "Love Hurts" sound to it. I'm gonna' try to bring that out a bit better on the next mix. I might drop one of the acoustics completely to make room for it. Very weird that you should mention the viola...when I was listening last night, I thought that the first 2 choruses could actually use a little viola counterpoint thing...luckily, my daughter DOES play viola, so I'll ask her - Again, thanks.

invisibleenemies - When I posted the song originally, I specifically asked if somebody could throw in a solo that just cut across the grain of the song...I think Sluice understood, and it's very cool of you to notice that. I know what you're saying, but I wouldn't ask him to retrack it because I just really really like the touch of quirkiness. I did alter exactly one note in his solo, though...it's a long bend that is now a lot shorter, lol. Thanks again.

Vestast - YES...the low end check would be much appreciated, b/c this thing feels overly boomy to me, but I kept putting more ass back into the drums as instructed by everyone, lol. It does SOUND better to me now, it's just a matter of how well it'll translate. Thanks again.

[edit] - Mix suggestions have been noted, appreciated, and now implemented.

[Garry Sharp]

Not my style either, but that was seriously good. Which I expected it to be from Chris. I thought the outro had just the right level of manic-ness - there was a very low (pitch I mean) vocal line which popped out of the speaker at around 2:40 (I think), otherwise I thought the vox could have been brought a touch up in the mix, or given a little more space seems hard to make them clear in the range where they are pitched.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by chrisharris

Hey, thanks a ton...these are very helpful. I brought the slide up throughout, and

mshilarious - you're right..there's a clean guitar tucked over on the left that kinda' has a "Love Hurts" sound to it. I'm gonna' try to bring that out a bit better on the next mix. I might drop one of the acoustics completely to make room for it. Very weird that you should mention the viola...when I was listening last night, I thought that the first 2 choruses could actually use a little viola counterpoint thing...luckily, my daughter DOES play viola, so I'll ask her - Again, thanks.

Just to clarify, when I said:

There is a guitar back in the mix that keeps implying a midrange string tone, and it makes me want to actually hear it.

I meant hear a viola, not hear the guitar (which I could already). Sorry for the confusion.

[chrisharris]

Mr. Sharp. Thanks, man. The vox have been giving me fits on this...it's a pretty constricted mix, and everytime I bring something up JUST a hair, it seems to wash out something else, lol...I will continue to work on it, b/c I'm obsessively compulsive about it.

MS-thanks for the followup...I needed to bring that git up anyway, LOL.

[bsanfordnyc]

Chris,

Solid work here.

Easy to listen to...I can't imagine this tune driving anyone away.

I also listened on computer speakers, and the only thing that stuck out to me was that backing guitar lead that is panned hard left during the chorus and such. it sounded real thin and distant in the mix, and sounded like that guitar player was standing 1 mile away from the rest of the band.

Cheers!

[chrisharris]

Originally Posted by bsanfordnyc

the only thing that stuck out to me was that backing guitar lead that is panned hard left during the chorus and such. it sounded real thin and distant in the mix, and sounded like that guitar player was standing 1 mile away from the rest of the band.

Cheers!

Hey man, thanks. Now, are you talking about the slide part? The reason I ask is because it's panned right instead of left, and it's not hard panned, (it's 40% to the right) but it seems like it to me too, lol. If you're talking about the clean guitar part on the left, then yeah...I'm not sure what to do with it...when I bring it up, it really walks all over the vocal a ton. At any rate, I appreciate the feedback a ton...just lemme' know which part is out in the boonies, lol.

[bsanfordnyc]

Yeah, it's definately the one panned left...it didn't sound like a slide at all. i think the slide sounded great.

just kind of a walking, background guitar lead panned left. I will try to listen to it again later, but perhaps if you can't make it fit, is it really necessary?

I'm not saying you do, but I definately have a tendency to get overly elaborate in my compositions, just because I can...just because there is space to fill. but the truth is, sometimes simple is more effective...and I have to remind myself that.

Cheers,

[chrisharris]

I'll be muting it, lol...thanks.

[NL5]

Hey,

the low end sounds good to me on my Computer speakers (with a sub), although it almost sounds like there is some real low end rumble, not real sure.

Overall, it sounds fantastic.

[chrisharris]

Originally Posted by NL5

Hey,

the low end sounds good to me on my Computer speakers (with a sub), although it almost sounds like there is some real low end rumble, not real sure.

Overall, it sounds fantastic.

Hey, THANKS for the sub check. I had forgotten to highpass it, and nothing I have will play stuff that low, so I couldn't tell. Thanks again.

[Phyl]

Very tight performance - nice vocal delivery, liked the harmonies. Slide guitar could have been mixed meatier/warmer, but it could just be my monitoring speakers.

Nice colab!

[chrisharris]

Originally Posted by Phyl

Slide guitar could have been mixed meatier/warmer, but it could just be my monitoring speakers.

No, you're right, and I'm glad you mentioned it. That's a relatively easy fix too, lol. Thanks a lot for listening, Phyl.

[vestast]

Hey Chris - Just downloaded the latest version from RP and I'm not hearing any bass issues. Listened to it on my new Event ASP8's and my old Samson system with the Sub and it sounds good.

Nice Job !!

[chrisharris]

Originally Posted by vestast

Hey Chris - Just downloaded the latest version from RP and I'm not hearing any bass issues. Listened to it on my new Event ASP8's and my old Samson system with the Sub and it sounds good.

Nice Job !!

You're my hero...thanks man.

[vestast]

LOL.

Then my work here is done..

[NL5]

Hey Chris,

Could you explain how you recorded this peice? (with as much detail as possible)

It really sounds fantatstic.

Thanks,

NL5

[chrisharris]

Originally Posted by NL5

Hey Chris,

Could you explain how you recorded this peice? (with as much detail as possible)

I'm floored you asked, but all I can take credit for recording are the vocals and acoustics, both of which were recorded with an AKGc3000 condenser (I hear it's good for mic'ing drum toms, lol).

acoustics/vocals - Actually, I kinda' dig that mic on my acoustic, but that's probably because it's a rosewood (really boomy) and something about the harshness of the mic kinda' helps offset the "warmth" of the guitar, lol. On just about every song I record, acoustic gits are part of the mix, and my standard treatment is to roll off everything below 80Hz right off the bat. On this tune, I ended up compressing them fairly heavily, then I hacked out a hole at 100Hz and eventually made a pretty wide/deep cut at 315Hz because the drums and bass were all in that area and the mix was muddy. I also almost universally boost 12K about 3dbs. On vocals, the mic is rough. On this tune, I ended up making about an octave wide cut 3 or 4 db deep centered at 2.5K to scoop some of the harshness out, and then I boost it a bit around 12K to try to give a touch of life to this shitty mic, HAHAHA!!!! There is absolutely no reverb on either the vocal or the rhythm acoustic guitars. There's a little bit on the acoustic leads. I did some doubling of the vocals in a few spots where it was sounding too upfront. When I double a vocal, I take the doubled track and compress the living shit out of it, boost the highs in it, autotune it, , and mix it about 12db-15db lower than the main vocal...or basically, up to a point where I can't consciously HEAR it, but when I mute it, the vocal "feels" different, if that makes any sense at all, lol.


Drums - As far as mixing goes, the kit was the hardest. It was well recorded, but everything except the kick was a lot darker than any drums I've ever mixed. It works in the context of the song, but it took my slow ass awhile to get it close. The drummer sent me the Kick, Snare, 3 tom tracks, and 2 overheads. I just highpassed everything except the kick, which I boosted at 50Hz and 6K (normal). I hate to admit this, but I actually used a BBE sonic maximizer on the kick to soften it a bit and put a little more meat in it. If the drummer sees this post, he WILL flame me, lol. I originally overcompressed and overgated the snare and it was just really shitty and thin, so after jacking around with it for 2 days, I finally just started over and manually enveloped/automated the volume of the snare throughout the entire song. Toms I only highpassed...and notched out around 315Hz. The overheads were the the easiest. Just panned them out about 70% each way, highpassed them at like 300Hz, lol...used a soft knee compression preset after the reverb plug, so it was kinda' compressing reverb, which is usually a disaster, but I liked it okay for the overheads.

bass - I got a good bass player who sent me a good bass track, end of story, LOL. I think he played through a POD, but I only made 2 adjustments to it. First, cut out a hole between 80Hz-100Hz (to make room for the kick) and then boosted it a couple of dbs at 500Hz and 1K. It was just a little too bright, so I also ended up using one of my favorite "fake vintage warmth" plugs, LOL. (PSP Vintage Warmer)...it's basically a multiband compression plug, but I didn't use much compression at all...used it more like a very simple EQ to add some lowmid psychoacoustics. It's hard to explain, but that plug is capable of warming up a track without muddying up a mix as much as using normal EQ would to get the same sound. I really don't know how it works, and just a LITTLE BIT goes a long way, but I dig it. In fact, I used that same plug to compress the acoustic guitars, too.

I don't know how the electric leads were recorded, but I'd bet that the wah was a mic'd mesa boogie. Sluice sent me another clean lead track that I think he actually liked better from a tone standpoint, but then, it wasn't a wah, hahaha. I'll ask both shredders how they recorded.

Wow...detailed enough? The truth is that all the tracks I got were just very well recorded, so even a knucklehead like me will eventually be able to stumble onto a decent mix. Others could make an astounding mix out of it, I think. Thanks a lot for asking...I enjoy rambling about this stuff.

[nickjc]

wow . . agreed - I am dwarfed.

Those acoustics sound REALLY nice (heaps of clarity and depth) and I really like the deep quality to your voice.

It's a great song too. Love the sweeping chorus.

I'm listening to it again - shit that mix is so good

[chrisharris]

Thank you very very much nickjc. Do you have any mp3's of your tunes with acoustic guitar sounds that you DON'T like? Seems there are very easy (and common) EQ tweaks that can help them a lot.

[JMarcomb]

nice job chris and collaborees.. sounds really good!

do i hear auto tuning at 1:08

id like to hear a little more air around the vocals to gel them to the drums a little better ..

a hear a tad of mid range boominess in the intro guitar... maybe next time point the mic towards the fretboard just a hair more... and try to use a small condenser when more than one acoustic guitar is being used.. you can tuck it in better

i think you did a pretty good job sorting out the frequencies and instrument placement

enjoyed!!

[The Ghost of FM]

Mr. Harris & Associates,

I would never tell you this kind of music isn't my cup of tea because I don't drink stinking tea!

You guys did a great job on this!

Very smooth and slick all around, good composition, excellent playing skills by all and a very serviceable mix!

About the only concern I have with it is perhaps in the MP3 transfer, I was detecting a bit of low end clipping and looking at the sine waves on my scope, there was bits of flat-line signaling that corresponded to the minor clipping I was hearing.

Obviously, (as I trust your engineering skills), I am sure this more a problem with NWR artificially bumping up the signal of the MP3 file once its on their server as apposed to you not doing a competent transfer. I've noticed this effect from them from a few other people who post on there too.

Anyway, great tune. I enjoyed it.

Cheers!