1/2 Newbie... Need Help With Compressor

[lowlow42]

Hello, I am sort of a newb when it comes to recording. I am new to this website also. But hopefully you guys can help me out.

I have a "basic" setup, home studio, which includes:
Marshall MXL v57 Condenser Mic
Behringer UB802 Mixer
M-Audio 24/96 Soundcard
Adobe Audition (For Recording)
and a new Behringer Autocom PRO-XL MDX1600

Now then, before I bought the compressor, everything was working great, but it seemed like I needed a compressor/limiter to keep all the vocals I record all at one level. So I visited a local audio shop, and they recommended me this unit.

Ever since I've brought it home, I haven't been able to use it. I've read the manual over and over, and even searched multiple times on the internet for resources. But no matter what, I still have the volume going into the Red (clipping).

To be honest, I'm not even sure if I have the knobs turn to the correct settings, but I am hoping maybe whoever reads this can help me out.

But I just need to know some settings that I can put it on, so that I can start using this unit.

If you need to see a picture, here is a link. (http://www.behringer.com//MDX1600/MDX1600_big.jpg)

Any help I can get, is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!

Thanks for reading...

[Farview]

How are you hooking it up.
Set the threshold at -10, ratio at 4/1, medium attack and release (12 o'clock) and the output at 0. If you are still going into the red, your gain staging is way off.

[lowlow42]

Thanks for the quick reply...

When you say how am I hooking it up, what exactly do you mean? The outputs on my mixer are going into the compressor/limiter's inputs, and then from the compressor's outputs, to my soundcard's inputs.

Well I tried what you said, and I still have clipping. Now when you say "Gain Staging" is off, does that mean that my mixer's outputs should be set to "0"? If so, that may solve a problem or two. But then it might record too low. I want the output of the whole recording to all be at "0", which is possible right?

What should the other settings on the compressor be set to? (Dynamic Enhancer, Peak Limiter, Enhancer/Gate, and all the extra little buttons that can be pushed in or out) Plus what do those features even effect/do?

[Farview]

Originally Posted by lowlow42

When you say how am I hooking it up, what exactly do you mean? The outputs on my mixer are going into the compressor/limiter's inputs, and then from the compressor's outputs, to my soundcard's inputs.

That is one way to do it. Normally it is in the channel insert but your way will work too.

Originally Posted by lowlow42

Well I tried what you said, and I still have clipping. Now when you say "Gain Staging" is off, does that mean that my mixer's outputs should be set to "0"? If so, that may solve a problem or two. But then it might record too low. I want the output of the whole recording to all be at "0", which is possible right?

What do you mean 'the output of the recording to be all at 0'? Are you talking about the recording levels or the fader position?
Gain staging is making sure that you are sending the right amount of signal out of one unit and into another. ie. you wouldn't want to crank up the first unit and turn down the second and have to crank the third just to get line level out of it. That type of thing causes distortion and noise problems.
You sound like you have a gain mismatch. Your compressor is +4 and your soundcard is -10. You will have to turn down the output of the compresor to about -12 or so.

Originally Posted by lowlow42

What should the other settings on the compressor be set to? (Dynamic Enhancer, Peak Limiter, Enhancer/Gate, and all the extra little buttons that can be pushed in or out) Plus what do those features even effect/do?

The dynamic enhancer is (I think) something that keeps the comp from reacting to low end. The peak limiter might help you, turn it on. The gate is a noise gate, leave it off for vocals.

[paranoid]

I'm guessing that the signal being fed to the comp is too hot OR you have the output gain on the compressor up OR the soundcard is adding unnescessary gain. The other possibility is that the attack on the compressor needs to be set faster (even at 1/4 attack settings, huge transient spikes WILL slip through). check these things-
1)is the compressor seeing too much gain coming into the compressor, ie. the threshold is being surapassed all the time? Is the input meter maxxed? if that's the case. turn down the output from the mixer. DO IT!
2) make sure there is no gain being added in the compressor (ie. output/makeup gain, limiter gain etc)
3) makes sure you are plugged into the line input @+4(not mic, or -10) of your soundcard, and that the soundcard isn't adding a gain boost.

GOOD LUCK

[lowlow42]

Originally Posted by Farview

What do you mean 'the output of the recording to be all at 0'? Are you talking about the recording levels or the fader position?

I meant for example, When I record it on my computer, I want the volume to all be at "0". Because I thought that compressor/limiters always output the whole recording at "0". Because I dont want to be having to "Normalize" it to 99%, you know what I mean?

As for when I'm recording with the compressor on, not all the sound is being clipped. Only when I test out speaking LOUDER in the mic, then that's when it hits the RED area. Even if I cranked up the output of my mixer to its fullest, shouldn't the compressor bring the signal below "0" before recording into my computer?

So what should the outputs on my mixer, and the output on my compressor be? Because they have to match correctly in order for clipping not occur, right? (There is a switch in the back of the mixer that changes it to +4 or -10, I have it +4) Because I had it at -10 and it actually was limiting, but the highest the level went was -12dB.

So what do you think...

[Farview]

You are not going to get your levels at 0 all the time (and there is no reason to do it) In order to do that you need to set up a limiter and for what you are doing, it would sound like crap. set the output of the board so that the recording level peaks at about -6 in your daw. That is more than enough level for anything. Also set the compressor so the reduction meter doesn't read more than 6db of reduction on the loud stuff.

If you keep trying to figure out what good sound looks like, your head will explode.

[MOFO Pro]

Originally Posted by Farview

If you keep trying to figure out what good sound looks like, your head will explode.

Poetry... never stated better...

[lowlow42]

Originally Posted by Farview

You are not going to get your levels at 0 all the time (and there is no reason to do it) In order to do that you need to set up a limiter and for what you are doing, it would sound like crap. set the output of the board so that the recording level peaks at about -6 in your daw. That is more than enough level for anything. Also set the compressor so the reduction meter doesn't read more than 6db of reduction on the loud stuff.

If you keep trying to figure out what good sound looks like, your head will explode.

Hmmm... I'm trying to fully understand this... The compressor/limiter will not have the final recording all "at or around" the same volume level (0 dB)?

And, I should set my mixer to output at -6dB? But won't that be too low?

And how would I set my mixer to not read more than 6 dB?

[Farview]

All a compressor does is limit the dynamic range by turning down stuff that goes over a threshold. That way the loud stuff isn't as loud and the quiet stuff isn't that quiet. 0db is way louder than you need to track anything. A finished mix can peak at 0db but individual tracks don't need to be anywhere near that. I track so that my average level is about -12 or -15 with peaks at -4 or -6.

Between the board and the compressor you have about 5 or 6 places to control the volume of what you are recording.
The trim control on the channel should be set so that when you hit the solo button the meters read an average of around 0.
The fader on the channel should be set so that the bus that it is assigned to is getting about the same (that will normally be unity gain or the 0 on the fader scale)
The bus fader, same as the channel fader.
The main output fader should be set so the output meter peaks at -6 (for example)
The compressor with the settings I gave you should give you an output of about -6 ish, if not turn up the make up gain on the comp.

Getting everything as close to 0db as possible is an unnecessary game that will cause you to slash your wrists some day. Stop worrying about it.

[lowlow42]

Oh ok... Well I definetely learned something then. I always thought every track had to be near "0". But really the whole mix should hit around "0", correct?

Well I left the output on my mixer to "0", and now things are not clipping when I speak loudly, but if I say a sudden work thats too loud, it isn't bringing the level down. Whats wrong with that?

Also, is it even possible with my compressor/limiter to be able to have the whole recording all at one volume. (Not necessarily "0", but you know?)

Also, what should I set my Peak Limiter to? I thought above "0" is clipping, and the only settings this has is from 0 to +20.

And if it comes down to it, I guess the biggest question lingering in my mind is... should I keep this compressor/limiter or should I seek another?

[Farview]

[QUOTE=lowlow42]Oh ok... Well I definetely learned something then. I always thought every track had to be near "0". But really the whole mix should hit around "0", correct? As a peak, yes. But it should not stay at 0, it should just hit it occasionaly

Originally Posted by lowlow42

Well I left the output on my mixer to "0", and now things are not clipping when I speak loudly, but if I say a sudden work thats too loud, it isn't bringing the level down. Whats wrong with that??

Set the attack time on the comp faster. Also set the threshold lower to catch those.

Originally Posted by lowlow42

Also, is it even possible with my compressor/limiter to be able to have the whole recording all at one volume. (Not necessarily "0", but you know?)?

Not really. If your dynamics are all over the place, you are still going to have a problem. In a perfect world, a 4/1 compression ratio will give you 1/4 the dynamic range out of it compared to what you put in.

Originally Posted by lowlow42

Also, what should I set my Peak Limiter to? I thought above "0" is clipping, and the only settings this has is from 0 to +20. ?

0 is only clipping in the digital realm. In the analog world 0 is where your average should be.

Originally Posted by lowlow42

And if it comes down to it, I guess the biggest question lingering in my mind is... should I keep this compressor/limiter or should I seek another?

You have unreasonable expectations about what compressors are for and what they really do. This isn't a great comp but the problems you are having with it, you would be having with any comp.

[Farview]

I just thought of something. If your card were running at +4 there is no way you could be clipping the input with the way I told you to set it up. Set the limiter at 0 and talk loud. It should be limited at -12 or so in the DAW. If it is clipping in the DAW, your sound card isn't at +4 or you are using the wrong input or the comp is bypassed.

[lowlow42]

Also, is it even possible with my compressor/limiter to be able to have the whole recording all at one volume. (Not necessarily "0", but you know?)?


Not really. If your dynamics are all over the place, you are still going to have a problem. In a perfect world, a 4/1 compression ratio will give you 1/4 the dynamic range out of it compared to what you put in.

Ok then, how would I be able to do this then? Because there is a "Dynamic Processor" effect on my computer that acts like an external compressor (but actually isn't) that puts everything at the same level. Although since it isnt a hardware compressor, you cant tweak it, so it sounds pretty bad.

So, what will the Peak Limiter do, and what should I set it to?

See... the thing was, I thought a compressor/limiter would have an option of almost acting like the "Normalize" feature too, where it would raise the volume to its maximum without clipping. But that's not possible, or is it?

As for another compressor, an Alesis has been recommended to me, becuase of an option it has where it "samples the signal" before it outputs it. This way everything is at 1 level, and not clipping (which is exactly what I'm trying to accomplish). And the attack and release is very nice. The price of that was $169.

So... With that being said/asked, what do you think?

[Farview]

The one in the computer sounds like crap because ANY compressor set to do that will sound like crap.
The peak limiter does what you want, but you will have to find a way to not have it clip your input.
I might not be following what you are really trying to do. It sounds to me like you want to smash all the dynamic range out of what you are doing. That is a bad idea and will never sound good.
If you are trying not to clip the inputs and just beef up the sound, the comp settings I gave you will do that.

Alesis makes junk for the most part but so does berri

[lowlow42]

Well then... I'll forget about the Alesis then.

Now if I just wanted to try with the Dynamic Range at or around a certain level (just to test), how would I go about doing that on my compressor?

[Farview]

The settings that I already gave you.
ratio at 4/1
Threshold set so that when you talk loud you are 6db into the reduction meter (the one that goes from right to left on the compressor)
set the peak limiter to 0
set the attack at 9 o'clock
set the release at 9 o'oclock
Set the output so that it does not clip the input of the daw.
That's it
If you are still clipping, there is something really wrong.
What type of sound card do you have. (I hope you aren't plugged into the mic input of a sound blaster or something)

[lowlow42]

Oh no no, I use an M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 soundcard. So the way you told me should keep the range of the whole recording around the same volume level, right?

And if that is so, then I am ready to record again. Well... THANKS FOR EVERYTHING!!!! You've been a BIG help! I appreciate it alot.

[Farview]

You should be good. Have fun.

[lowlow42]

There's 1 last thing I dont understand. If I put (for example) the output on the compressor to -10, I am still recording higher levels than that on my computer. Why is that? I thought whatever I set the output on the compressor, that is the volume level I will record on my computer.

And as for keeping everything around the same level, that isn't working... hmmm...???

And if I suddenly say something loud in my mic, the volume clips, but I think I just have to adjust the "attack" time, right?

[lowlow42]

Nevermind about the outputs, I had to push in an "In/Out" button, and as soon as I did that, it was the output I wanted.

But my recording is not around the same level like I had wanted it to be (to test it out). Is there anything I missed about how to do that?

[Farview]

A compressor is only going to go so far. Good mic technique will help you here.
Now that you don't have it bypassed, it will work better.
What is the recording level that you are getting?
Are you trying to get a vocal line to look like thhis picture?

[Farview]

A well recorded vocal track should look something more like this.
BTW this is compressed and more of a screaming and yelling type of vocal, not talking.

[lowlow42]

Well, the second image you have posted is what I'd like it to look like throughout the whole vocal recording, because all the "tips" or "tops" of the "spike" are around the same height/volume. When I record, some are high and some are low. So how would I record and get like, almost a mix between the first and second image?

[lowlow42]

Something along the lines of these two... (Sorry about the crappy screens! )