song stucture info?

[Krystof01]

The good thing about writing a song is that there are no rules. There is of course a stucture of say intro, verse, bridge (optional-as all of it is), chorus, instrumental; then say middle eight, solo etc.

[Setherial]

is there a site which explains basic song structure/writing etc.? before i buy a song writing video!

[dragonworks]

krystof01 is correct. You have basically
intros, verses, choruses,bridges, middle sections (solos over the chord structure of any of the above mentioned or a totally differnt chord stucture maybe in another key.} endings. And you have tempo, time and
key changes also. A typical song might go;
intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, middle over the intro chord sructure, verse, chorus,
end over the intro chord structure. You may
want to listen to some of your favorite tunes
and see how their parts fall and why you like
them and that will help you understand how they are written. If you listen to some Hendrix, for example purple hazes middle solo
I think it changes key and also in Wind Cries
Mary and then reverts back to the original key for the rest of the song.

[Ron Galicia]

The only rule I've learned to follow is: Keep it interesting.

[nutwhaley]

for most songs...don't let it have an ending...keeps the audience coming to their own conclusions and adds to a conversational piece

[MysticRubies]

my writing is written freely no stop signs just go with what ever feels good,sounds good CREATIVITY what a wonderful word :-)

[Salabim]

does the song stucture matter all that much...?

sure having verses, intros, bridges, whatever helps, but i think that the structure should be different each song...makes for a bit moe variety...

Tim

[dragonworks]

The song structure doesn't really matter but if you listen to any song they are constructed with verses choruses bridges etc.
There are no strict rules of course but you
should find that just about everything you
listen to is written this way. There is no
way to get around it or it wouldnt be a song.

[regebro]

On the other hand, LOADS of music is NOT done that way. Loads of the early OMD stuff isn't, for example. Take the great song "Enola Gay". It doesn't have a chorus. The same goes for most techno/dance/house/dnb stuff, btw.
Almost NONE of the Iggy Pop songs has a standard structure. They are usually just one long heavy riff droning on and on for two and a half minutes. He gets some change in there by sometimes singing the song title and sometimes singing some kind of verse, but the music is the same all the time. Now, of course, if your gonna do that, you better have one heck of a riff.
I go with Ron Galicias advice: Keep it interesting. If you can make something that can take being repeasted for 3 minutes you are to congratulate. Iggy and the Stooges could. Most people can't, and therefore do other things to keep up interest.

Good things to do:
1. Is the verse a bit boring, but the Chorus catchy? Start with the Chorus, but with an instrument playing the song melody instead of singing.

2. The verse is good? Use the ELO Patented Verse Doubler (tm)! Have a double verse first time around.

3. Put in a break before the last chorus so people doesn't get bored when you start repeating the chorus at the end.

This results in The Ultimate Song Structure:
Chorus(no singing), Verse, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Break, Chorus to fade. This works for almost *any* song.


[This message has been edited by regebro (edited 07-04-2000).]

[migo]

There are many examples of past hits that do not have that verse/verse/chorus/blah/blah structure that seems to dominate, too predictably, the hits of today.

The examples below made it to #1
Hey Jude - Beatles
If You Leave me Now - Chicago
Time In A Bottle - Jim Croce
Angie - Rolling Stones
I Can See Clearly Now - Johnny Nash
Ben - Michael Jackson
Black & White - Three Dog Night
Alone Again - Gilbert O'Sullivan
Band On The Run - Paul McCartney

Anything is possible. You be the judge @ what you feel is "good". When you write, turn yourself on (figuratively).

Here's an example of a not so predictable structure of a song written by George Harrison. It went to #1 in June 1973. But, you'd have to hear this song to take hold of the song structure though.

Give Me Love (Give me peace on earth)

Give me love
Give me love
Give me peace on earth
Give me light
Give me life
Keep me free from birth
Give me hope
Help me cope, with this heavy load
Trying to, touch and reach you with,
heart and soul

OM M M M M M M M M M M M M M
M M M My Lord . . .

PLEASE take hold of my hand, that
I might understand you

Won't you please
Oh won't you

Give me love
Give me love
Give me peace on earth
Give me light
Give me life
Keep me free from birth
Give me hope
Help me cope, with this heavy load
Trying to, touch and reach you with,
heart and soul

OM M M M M M M M M M M M M M
M M M My Lord . . .

PLEASE take hold of my hand, that
I might understand you.

[This message has been edited by migo (edited 07-04-2000).]

[This message has been edited by migo (edited 07-04-2000).]

[Coda - Co]

dragonworks nailed it -- only thing I can add is punch up songwriting in a search -- you'll come up with 50 sites on the subject.....

[dragonworks]

No song has to have a bridge, has to have a chorus, has to have a verse, but it has to have structure. If playing the same chord for
3 minutes with no changes is the song, then that is the sructure. If you play totally unconnected tones and change time every third
beat then you wont have a song per say, you will have chaos, which is structure in itself. Most of the songs previously cited have strucure of one kind or another.
But do whatever turns ya on.

[kmar]

Can you say R E P E T I T I O N? Give 'em the chorus at least 3 times.

AMERICA's 1st hit "Horse With No Name" has 2 chords- repeated over and over. kmar

[Ron Galicia]

Iggy Pop? I actually like him a lot and I take a closer look at his songs because I think they have a great verse/chorus structure. His song bridges (when they occur) act as inspiration for helping me out of my writing rut sometimes. It's in there, I swear!

A lot of the other hit songs mentioned as not having structure actually do have structure, in my opinion. I can post some examples of where I think the verses and choruses come in, if you prod me.

I guess part of their greatness is that the structure is not so obvious upon listening. But it's there. And I'm not smoking strange shit.

[gibs]

Sometimes bridges can be really cool...but a lot of the time they're filler.....and usually crap unless they're putting across a genuine feeling/emotion....professional songwriters, particularly of pop and/or country that write songs pitched to established artists are bridge crazy....I've written lots of songs that I've pitched that had bridges that were total filler crap to make up the required 2 and a half to 3 minute potential airplay song.....dragonworks nailed it about structure of SOME kind...I just generally despise bridges.......even though I've been and probably will be a perpetrator....gibs

Ok I had to add this even though I used edit...I love the beatles music...it changed my life in lots of ways...but, I'm an old fart and that's the way it is for me and I won't argue with anybody about it...BUT the worst freakin' bridge I've ever heard (unless I get some brain cells back) is in a beatles song, namely Paperback Writer...that was the worst filler bullshit I have ever heard in an otherwise very cool tune....real short, one line "paperback writer" thrown in with half assed barbershop quartet singing right when the song only needed the last verse and a fade out chorus....pissed me off when I was fifteen, pisses me off now.....

[This message has been edited by gibs (edited 07-07-2000).]

[Melody master]

I usually build my tunes, from linking one part to another, it is pretty easy, I never use the rules that some other people use, belive me, I kae songs by using my head, I never write songs, well due to the fact, that I can't, but even if I could, I feel, that when it comes to making the song, just think what'd sound good, if you do a good start, then think about what would would follow, usually, you don't even have to think about what to do, it will just pop there, and you ll think NICE!!!!!! Well good luck anyhows!!! Hope to hear your tunes soon mate, keep aiming for your goal mate!!!

Peace
MeLoDy MaStEr

[yage]

Back in the days there was the 12bar blues standard that became popular in the 60´s bluesrock boom. Some blues songs just went on for ever on one chord, like a mantra. Also more complicated pop songs emerged from tin pan alley and doo-woop, with stars like brian wilson and van dyke parks. Lots of strange structure, instrumentation and tempo changes. Maybe it was country music that laid out the ground for modern popular music - verse-chours etc. The most important to me, it is the way a song is performed (got nothing to do with technical skills). Anyway there are some good stuff to pick out there....(stop listening to that beatuls and fm rock shit, for gods sake!)

[crEEk]

A solid song usually has some sort of hook. Doesn't have to be poppy, but something recognizable that the listener can 'take hold of' and remember.

You guys have said it best I think. There are no hard and fast rules here and oftentimes going against the grain yields some great results. Take a listen to songs that you like and pick them apart. You'll probably be surprised to find that a) they are pretty basic at their core and b) they touch some sort of emotion in you.

Have fun!