I sing like a dying pig in the heat of a miscarriage, HELP ME!!!

[Ron Galicia]

Hm, sounds like me before I took any voice classes. I'd say get someone to help coach or teach you effective breathing, volume, etc.

I still have some problems (meaning, I still suck) which is why I start private vocal lessons today.

[Brad]

I agree that voice lessons are the way to go. I too sound like a misscarrying pig in a mud puddle, but I can't afford voice lessons right now. What I did was get my hands on a book that comes with a CD to practice along with. It helps, but it can't replace the actual one on one coaching you could get from a pro.
Anyway, just thought I'd mention the book/CD option as a low cost alternative.

The book I have is "Set Your Voice Free" by Roger Love.

[Helmut]

Dear fellow muso's, I like the music I make and I would like to do the lyrics myself (not for any egotistical reason mind you), because I would like to have controll over what I do. Problem is I can only sing slow songs, I cant scream, bring my volume up or even sound convincing. The other big problem in my mind is that I can't help but to sing very rythmically, and that I don't want. Who can give me some pointers (or a good shop that sells talent). Thanx ppl.

[C. Lewis]

A lot of the recordings I like most have really "unique" vocal styles: Jad Fair, The Wedding Present, Will Oldham. I think one of the things that gets overlooked in music is how to exploit the voice's unusual character to exagerrated levels. Turn the gain up and whisper into the mic. Get drunk and slur and spit. Record the vocals without taking a cigarette out of your mouth (even if it's unlit). Do the Jim Morrison thing with yr wife. Read the latest Tape Op article on Ween; they would run around in the snow wearing underwear or they'd sing in a car trunk. You can probably tell already I'm not interested in soaring, perfect pitch vocals. I come from punk rock. But these things do make great recordings. They just won't make you any money.

[Ron Galicia]

Oh yeah, I have Roger Love's book too and have been working from it for about 2 months now. Great book.

[monty]

Get drunk and do your recording while you're driving around in your car. You'll sound great.

[CMiller]

I don't know much about this guy, but I have read a few of the Free Lessons and found them interesting.
http://www.voicelesson.com/free.htm

Some of the articles have made me approach my singing as more of an instrument. I had a tough time with that. Of course I still hate my voice, but maybe technically I'm using it a little better!

[Ron Galicia]

Oh yeah, another thing if you can't afford private lessons just yet. Check to see if you have a local community college that offers voice classes. Sometimes they're at night and sometimes they're very cheap too.

[JimH]

Hey, I can't sing very well. But I really enjoyed this thread. And I read a little of that Mark Baxter web site and I really liked it. I'd like to get better at singing than I am. It occurred to me that this site has forums for various instruments, but none for vocals. I know there are already a lot of forums here already, but a vocal forum might be pretty helpful and popular. It's an instrument everybody has (more or less). And even if you're not a singer, I think that learning a little about what singers have to go through gives us instrumentalists more appreciation.

[Helmut]

C.Lewis, I like your style. Thanx ppl, one always gets some good advice around here.

[Tapehead]

Great question--good to see some discussion about actually creating music! I'm not an expert on singing but I can share my own experience, having been down a similar path.

Try this--pick up some instrument you've never played before--let's say a violin or a trumpet. Try to play it. That's right, it feels alien. But when you take your favorite instrument--say a guitar--it fits you naturally, both physically and emotionally. You can play it with confidence and expression. When I play guitar I don't have to think about it, I can just go.

Now think of your voice as an instrument. If you don't use it, and haven't learned something about how it works, it's like that unfamiliar instrument. Just because we talk doesn't mean we can sing. These are entirely different things. Only in the past few years have I taken my voice more seriously. I'll never have a great voice, but I can do reasonable stuff that people enjoy within my limited range, and can do credible BGs in my band. It's FUN.

The main things for me were familiarity and confidence. Before I got into singing I sounded like a wounded kitten. I was self conscious and the noise stuck in the back of my throat. My voice would then waver and break up. Ugh.

So I took just a few voice lessons. It was a night school class with a bunch of old farts who wanted to sing Sinatra and Karaoke queens. But it gave me a better understanding of my voice, some tips on stance, projection, articulation, breathing, expression, and a bunch of exercises. I started singing along with some stuff that I liked at home.

Gradually, over time, my voice strengthened. I got more confidence (key). I'm now at the point where I can enjoy singing and fit in comfortably in most situations where some extra vocals are required.

Anyhow, that's my story. Having been where you are, I can only encourage you to keep trying.

[rjt]

Hmmmm, nice to know I'm not the only one who can't sing (and admits it). There has been much wisdom so far in this forum. Continued practice and learning technique can certainly help. I especially agree with the ideas about going with the strengths of your voice... we don't need more "cookie cutter" vocals. Sometimes that's great but it isn't for everyone. I think people enjoy the passion and emotion of a performance more than the technical aspects... Hang in there!!

[Helmut]

Tapehead, that is exactly what happens to me, I can keep to a tune if I sing soft, but my selfcontiousnous breaks it up. I start feeling as if a hundred eyes are staring at me critically even if I am alone in a house and it hinders me. Rjt, I agree with you most in this forum however, ppl do enjoy the emotion and sincerety more than a song bird I think. What my main problem is (and now I can express it better) is that lacking the self confidence, I struggle against myself (or my own shyness on the matter) to really let rip. So lets turn this discussion a bit and hear some views on how some of you handle shyness and lack of confidence on stage and in the studio.

[Ron Galicia]

Sigh.

Musical instruction doesn't necessarily mean you'll sound like you were cut from a cookie-cutter. I've heard lots of earnest and emotional singing that made me long for fingernails on a blackboard instead. Hang out at a karaoke bar long enough and you'll eventually hear the guy or gal that I'm talking about. "Man, but he/she deserves an A for effort!" Not from me. Don't get me wrong--the opposite extreme turns me off too. It's an excuse to use one of my favorite phrases: "Technically brilliant but ultimately soulless." (My other favorite phrase is "Impress your friends, increase your enemies" but I reserve that for guitar shredders usually.)

There are instructors out there, not just for voice, who do value your individual strengths and styles and will work with you on your uniqueness. You just have to find them.

In a class setting this might not be possible, but you could still probably get a good idea or two from the class that'll make it easier to find the voice you wanted.

[Krystof01]

Running a little adjacent to the thread but as on the Mark Baxter lessons your diet is an integral part. Drinking (alcohol/coffe), smoking (****/*****), eating (dairy products) all have a bearing on your potential. Make sure you lubricate your throat constantly with water before and after singing for better results.

I was able to cut back on dairy products and coffee when I became more dedicated to singing but the others, well-I guess I'll wait.

[CMiller]

Since I'm the one who posted the Mark Baxter link, I'll let you know what I learned from his site. I learned how to keep my voice from turning to shit after four takes. I learned how to project my voice a little better without as much fatigue. I also learned how to warm up. Granted, I still sound like shit, but I'm using my voice a little better...or at least a little more efficiently.

As for how I conquer shyness, I haven't. I'm still very shy about singing even in my studio. But I try to channel the nervous energy into my performance. Easier said than done, but I try anyway!

[istyle]

ok any body ever had this experience?
i think i knew the right way to sing all along but i thought it overacting ,oversinging with its subtle and thick tone
so i always ended up recording my singing in a hoarse rough voice which i thought it was my personality
HOHOHO
i'll post this example soon
still wondering which one is right
thnx

[Tucci]

I am no expert but I have sung in front of hundreds of people lots of times and here are some things that have helped improve my singing:

1. Sing all the time.

2. Join a choir - when you're hidden amongst many people you will be less shy about singing out. Singing in a college choir has helped me tremendously, plus it is a lot of fun.

3. Sing all the time - sing with your favorite albums, sing in the car, sing along with commercials, scream and yell, and quit worrying about what you sound like.

4. Just have a good time singing - don't think of your singing so personally. Lots of people are bad singers and you are probably not as bad as you think.

5. Sing all the Time.
When you are at work sing out loud. Force yourself to. Laugh at your co-workers remarks and tell them they will think differently when they see you on MTV.

6. Sing all the time.

It is just like playing a guitar. If you do it all the time pretty soon it will be second nature to you and it won't matter whether you are singing by yourself or for hundreds or thousands of people.

Sing sing sing,

Tucci

[Tucci]

I am no expert but I have sung in front of hundreds of people lots of times and here are some things that have helped improve my singing:

1. Sing all the time.

2. Join a choir - when you're hidden amongst many people you will be less shy about singing out. Singing in a college choir has helped me tremendously, plus it is a lot of fun.

3. Sing all the time - sing with your favorite albums, sing in the car, sing along with commercials, scream and yell, and quit worrying about what you sound like.

4. Just have a good time singing - don't think of your singing so personally. Lots of people are bad singers and you are probably not as bad as you think.

5. Sing all the Time.
When you are at work sing out loud. Force yourself to. Laugh at your co-workers remarks and tell them they will think differently when they see you on MTV.

6. Sing all the time.

It is just like playing a guitar. If you do it all the time pretty soon it will be second nature to you and it won't matter whether you are singing by yourself or for hundreds or thousands of people.

Sing sing sing,

Tucci

[Tapehead]

Helmut, Tucci said EVERYTHING I was going to say in response to your question, so I won't repeat it!

[Qasper]

Alright guys, take it from a singer: Tucci's right. Listen: I can't play guitar for my life (it's been 5 years, and I'm improving, but have a wayz to go before I'll be swingin' freestyle on anything that comes by), can't do squat recording-wise yet (just got my gear) but lord knows, this boy's got pipes.

Thing is, all I've been doing musically my whole life is sing. In the shower, mowing the lawn, in choirs (gospel, classical, jazz, you name it).

I started off imitating Bon Jovi (hey, I was 12!!) doing the backing vocals and all, then I slipped into Boyz II Men (again, I was young and you have to admit, they know how to do some nifty acrobatics with their chords), and finally Pearl Jam. Now I'm talking about belting out songs full-blast for 2-4 hours every day, minimum. I was, as they say, a loser. Loner, locked in his room. But out of it, I got a falsetto softer than Slim's, a run as fast and impressive as Wanya Morris' and a control which lets me get a Ben Harper raspiness when I need it.

In the biz, they call it soul. Oh yeah, and it gave me the perrenial singer's attitude (arrogant and bitchy). What can I say, I know my shit.

And like I said: Had I spent all those hours on a guitar, I'd be playing my ass off right now. But I didn't. I sang. So there it is. Be glad you have your guitar chops, and work on second and third instruments (vox being one) but don't expect miracles. Money can't buy you 15 years of practice. It might cut it in half, though.

Bottom line, listen to the Tucch. Coaching will help you, but it sure as hell won't transform you into Springsteen. To do that, you gotta sing.

Sing sing sing.

-Q-

[hixmix]

Not to worry Helmut.

With pipes like you describe you can always do voice overs for Michael Bolton.

[This message has been edited by hixmix (edited 06-21-2000).]

[rjt]

Anxiety...as in stage fright or performance anxiety can come from several sources. These include judging yourself too harshly (you hear minor imperfections that the audience doesn't hear), expecting perfection (which literally never happens), blowing the response to errors out of proportion (everyone will laugh if I make a mistake) and also, it acts as protection...by keeping you from performing. One of the big things about anxiety is that it is tends to be fear of the "unknown" in this way: you are anxious because you fear the response to your errors...because you are fearful, you don't perform...so you never learn what the response is to you errors.

In order to overcome my performance anxiety, I started by playing only for one or two friends, then more and more. Then audiences of 4-5 friends with one or two strangers. I played last year in front of about 60 strangers.... okay, not a lot, but I'm not a professional (musician). The things that help with anxiety include overlearning and try this (it sounds weird) make a mistake on purpose... see what happens... usually nothing.

Since I am already being long winded.... I went to hear James Galway a couple of years ago... probably the world's greatest flautest. (okay, I can't spell.) He was talking about the Baroque Orchestra in Portland and then started playing... about 20 seconds into the song, he stops cold. He tells the audience he was thinking about something else and started the wrong piece. Everyone laughed with him.

For myself, I have found that people are usually appreciative of your efforts and are often appreciative of your talents. So sing, what could happen??

[MysticRubies]

Helmut here is something you might want to check out :-) http://www.singing.com/vocaltraining.htm
I will be ordering this for myself also.
Good luck!!! :-)

[GitarGrl]

Okay, I'm a singer. I've studied voice at top schools. I sing opera with a professional company here in NYC. But I like to sing rock. No, I LOVE to sing rock.

Unfortunately, like many of the people who've responded to this thread already, I agree that voice lessons can actually take away that which makes a rock voice unique. For basic technique, sure -- you need to know how to breath, and how not to destroy your vocal chords -- but you also need to beware the paralysis of analysis that many singers fall into. Just sing. Don't think about every little thing.

Don't let the fact that the mic is live throw your vocals into a tailspin. Heck, even I still do that sometimes! The way I work through it is to just keep recording the track 'til I'm comfortable enough with the mic on to be able to sing it the way I would in the shower. That's the beauty of a home studio -- unlimited time and tape to do it over as much as you want... or dare!