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#1
10-11-2004
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Old Subject, New Poster
Hello everyone,
I would like to start this post by apologizing for it. I know that all of my questions are likely answered in other posts, and if I spent an inordinate amount of time reading through them, and making notes, that eventually I'd find what I'm looking for. However, to be absolutely honest . . . I don't have the time. I'm expected to have something figured out within the week, and at the moment, I'm absolutely "in the dark". I've been the 'man in the know' on many different forums, and I know how obnoxious it is to have to answer the same questions over and over, but I hope that someone will have patience enough to help me nonetheless. I am a computer/network guru type, with quite an extensive knowledge of the inner-workings of computer hardware and software, but I've found myself to be lost when it comes to recording music with any quality. I haven't really upgraded my computer in any way specific to recording, and I'm thinking that's where my problem lies. I have a small line mixer that I've hooked into my sound card (Soundblaster Live!) through which I run a mic and a guitar. It seems to work ok for recreational purposes, and "multi-track" practice, but the quality just isn't sufficient for any real use. This weekend I have been asked to record a few songs for my father/uncle's country band, and I'm certain this this low-level of quality isn't sufficient for even that genre of music (heh). It would consist of about 4-6 tracks, standard stuff. I appear to have a good array of software - Cakewalk, Cubase, etc, but I'm wondering where I should spend my money on hardware. Most of my knowledge is computer based, so I'm sure the system should at least mostly exist on the computer, but what should I buy to upgrade the quality? I suspect the answer is going to be the soundcard, but even then I'm not entirely sure how that would work for seperating the channels while recording a live performance. Concerning my equipment, suffice it to say that my computer is very fast, with lots of memory and harddrive space . . . and I have every cable/adaptor known to man (or so it seems sometime). Let me know if there's anything specific someone needs to know about my equipment to tailor a response. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you very much in advance. Rob. 
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#2
10-11-2004
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You didn't list your computer specs but I'll assume you actually have it setup right (a gig of RAM, hopefully a seperate 7200RPM HD drive for streaming audio only. If you are only doing small track count projects then the seperate HD isn't a big deal.
You will get the most out of upgrading your soundcard, preamp and mics. Those are all the things that make the most difference. Check out the M-Audio cards. They are good quality home recording cards. If you want multiple tracks at once you would would need the Delta 44/66 or 1010. There are usually some cheap deals on Ebay. There are a lot of options for preamps and mics. A good quality setup would be a Soundcraft M series mixer or a Mackie 1404 or something. That would give you multiple mic preamps and you connect the Inserts or Direct outs to the multiple soundcard inputs. That's how you record seperate tracks at the same time.
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#3
10-12-2004
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You "appear" to have software??? Either you have it or you don't.
 Why does your post make me suspicious? Generally, if you want people to help, it's nice if you're willing to put out a little effort to research and learn. That you admit you know better and still are too lazy to do it is insulting to the rest of us. Apparently you don't think our time is as valuable as yours. Do a little homework, get some basics down, ask some specific questions and you'll get lots of valuable input. Otherwise, go to Guitar Center and let them earn their commission check! Ted
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#4
10-12-2004
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Quote:
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#5
10-12-2004
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In my defense, not that I need it, virtually ALL of my posts have been trying to answer people and offer advice. Quote:
I wasn't nice because I'm pretty sure this guy is not what he claims. You believe he went out and bought Cubase and Cakewalk (he doesn't say which program), but has a Soundblaster and no idea of what he's doing? So he went out and spent $500-$1000 on software without doing any research? I don't think so. You believe what you want. I stand by my reply. I'm pretty good at reading people. I don't think I'm wrong. Ted
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#6
10-12-2004
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Actually, he also said, "I am a computer/network guru type," and guys like that tend to get a lot of free software.
__________________
Newest endeavor: Playing drums in a live band version of 7 Door Sedan's music. __________________ "Do yourself a favour just shut up, read up then put up." --muttley600
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#7
10-12-2004
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I never said anything about whether the software was legitimate or not. I was just commenting on you being an ass about his use of "appear." Hell...I have an illegal copy of Cubase SX 2, but it doesn't bother me because I never actually use it. I downloaded it to compare it against Sonar, and I chose to stick with Sonar.
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#8
10-12-2004
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Frankly, you're not making any sense now. If his software is pirated, I don't have any respect for someone who claims to be an expert and steals, he should know better. And I don't believe he purchased thousands of dollars of software without any idea of what it is. I also don't think Cakewalk or Steinberg simply handed him a copy of SONAR or Cubase. Get real. My assessment that he values his time over ours was correct. He as much as said it himself. Maybe you feel he's right. Knock yourself out. Me? I find that attitude insulting. It's ironic that you defend someone who you agree might be using pirated software and has told you he thinks his time is too valuable to spend learning anything on his own, but hopes you will freely offer yours to help him. Putting aside his software situation, which by itself would keep me from offering assistance, had he come here as a complete newbie then his lack of knowledge would be forgivable. I'd still be annoyed by his lack of effort though. What I reacted to is that someone who freely admits he's ashamed to make the request shouldn't make it. It wouldn't take an "inordinate" amount of time either. A simple search would yield numerous suggestions for equipment. I noticed that, even though you excoriated me, you didn't offer him any help. Why's that?  Ted
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#9
10-12-2004
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The most interesting thing to me about some of these types of responses, is the fact that there are responses at all. If you have such a low opinion of me based on one post . . . why not simply move on to the next post?
I'm sorry you feel this way, but I am telling the truth. My father and uncle and I went together and bought Cubase SX for $428 (after tax) from zzounds.com and I got a Cakewalk CD with one of the soundcards that I've bought at some point over the last year or two. That is also where I got my little line mixer. Whether you believe me or not, would you please give your opinion concerning my question? TexRoadKill, thank you for your recommendation, it looks like the Delta 66 would be perfect, and in the right price range too! Thank you very much. I found one for $169.00 on Ebay this afternoon. sile, thank you very much, I appreciate it immensely. tedluk, the reason I apologized up front, is because I know that posting a question that is likely already answered is implying that my time is more important than yours, and I'm sorry for that. As I said in my post, if I had a lot of time, I would be happy to look, but I really don't have the time to read off and on for a few days, and piece together a response to my specific issue, and still be able to order the equipment, set it up, and test it before Saturday. I'm sorry this offends you, but that's the reason I apologized in the first place. If it makes you feel any better, come to the mp3car.com (Master) forum, or the mameworld.net forums (Master), or the techsupportforums.com forums (Rob_Reality), the guitarnoise.com forum (Rob_Reality), or even the Pravda political forum (Masterful). . . and ask a stupid question. I'll gladly return the favor by answering it for you without malice. Rob.
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#10
10-12-2004
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Hey tedluk, this forum is dedicated to newbies. It is generally assumed that any type of question will be met with the understanding of the intention of this forum. Why don't you just bypass the questions if the only advice you intend to give is going to be criticism?
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#11
10-12-2004
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Hey Rob, welcome to the BBS.
I know you said you don't have much time and that will probably be your downfall for this immediate project. Time is the one ingredient you can't skimp on too much but for the meantime do the best that you can. Sounds like you've got the hardware end set up ok for now. What you need to learn real quick is how to track. The mixing and mastering for your project you can learn about and do at a later time. For the tracking - http://www.ethanwiner.com/mixer2daw.html and http://www.bluebearsound.com/articles/bettertapes.htm For the mixing - http://www.bluebearsound.com/articles/mixing101.htm That should get you started. When you have time, get yourself a book called Modern Recording Techniques by David Miles Huber. It rocks with info. Another good idea is to read a little of the mixing/mastering and recording forums on this site. Priceless! Good luck with your project.
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#12
10-12-2004
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#13
10-12-2004
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I too, received a pretty sarcastic response from someone on my first post. But, I've been posting to various newsgroups for so long now, I just ignore crap like that. True, sometimes you have to be thick skinned and just laugh it off. i would like to Thank Manning1 for his response, it got me started in the right direction. I downloaded Audacity, and have started to do some simple recording. I know it's nothing spectacular, but I am starting understand the basic recording process.
Can this newsgroup be read with MS Outlook Express, and if so, what newsgroup address would it be? I can't seem to find it.
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#14
10-13-2004
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Everyone- I ignore far more posts than I reply to. Some because I don't have the knowledge to give a meaningful answer, some because I don't feel they warrant a response, some because someone else has already replied in a fashion similar to what I would have offered.
Maybe I should have ignored Rob's as well, but I responded for a couple of reasons which I explained in my original reply. On the other hand, I have responded frequently in this forum to many newbies who have little or no knowledge and are seeking assistance. Sometimes they've asked questions that have been asked dozens of times previously and I've patiently replied. I know that people come here looking for help with a complicated subject and often feel lost, confused and overwhelmed. However...Rob isn't in that category and that's why I responded as I did. He freely admits that he wasn't willing to make the slightest effort to find answers to his questions and THAT is what I didn't appreciate. Someone with his supposed experience should know better. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that no one else finds that attitude insulting. I'm more than willing to help people, but I don't think it's asking too much for them to expend even a little effort of their own. 10 minutes would have probably allowed Rob to do a search of "soundcards" and read 30-40 posts in several threads. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. I guess I don't like laziness. I especially don't like it when the lazy person wants ME to do their work for them. Rob- I'm glad to hear you came by your software legitimately. Still doesn't make a lot of sense to me that you'd spend $428.00 on a piece of software without doing any research or having the hardware necessary to utilize it, but I'll take you at your word. Maybe my response was overly harsh. I don't feel it was- I'm pretty careful with the words I choose. And, truthfully, if you don't want to do any work and you're in a hurry, then my recommendation was valid. Go to GC and let them earn your money. Or call ZZounds or Sam Ash or whomever. You'll get yourself setup and be on your way. Good luck to you. Ted
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#15
10-13-2004
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Well normally i would be quite annoyed at someone being lazy about looking stuff up. But if you think about it, then what exactly is a college? It is a place you go to ask the experts for answers. Sure, you could teach yourself via books, but a professor is able to give you a faster, more applicable and much more direct answer than if you tried to look it up yourself. If he just flat out asked the questions, i would be annoyed...BUT he mentioned that he doesn't have much time. In that context, it makes complete sense to ask.
I would agree with your suggestion about asking someone at GC or ZZounds or whatever, were it not for the fact that so very freqently the reps don't know anything more about a product or how to do something than what was written on the box. The people on this board actually know stuff.
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#16
10-13-2004
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#17
10-13-2004
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I don't know how the college analogy relates. I'm not getting paid to teach newbies. Is there a new program on the board I wasn't informed of?  You send me a paycheck and I'll answer questions all day long!  Ted
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#19
10-13-2004
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 Oh well... I'll probably keep answering questions anyway. I just prefer helping those who are willing to help themselves. It's all good though. Ted
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#20
10-13-2004
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I am one of the ones who needs your help, so I'm glad your still willing... Last edited by Rokket; 10-13-2004 at 22:38.. Reason: forgot to add
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#21
10-15-2004
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Thank you to everyone for the responses. I got the card today, and will be spending the evening, and likely much of tomorrow familiarizing myself with it. I agree that lack of time will be my downfall in this project, but then it doesn't have to be a perfect recording either. It was understood when we went together on all of this that it wouldn't be professional quality the first time we did it. There will be plenty of later attempts, but for the purpose of lining up a couple jobs in the next state, they need a CD to send immediately.
tedluk said this: "He freely admits that he wasn't willing to make the slightest effort to find answers to his questions and THAT is what I didn't appreciate. Someone with his supposed experience should know better. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that no one else finds that attitude insulting. I'm more than willing to help people, but I don't think it's asking too much for them to expend even a little effort of their own. 10 minutes would have probably allowed Rob to do a search of "soundcards" and read 30-40 posts in several threads." Sir, you have completely misjudge me, my actions, and my intentions. My statements were meant to dissuade the normal "look it up . . . try google" type responses that people give on bulletin boards. It was essentially a warning to people with that type of attitude, that this post wasn't directed at them. I never implied anywhere that I wasn't willing to put in 10 minutes on my own. Nor did I say that I bought that software with NO idea of how to use it either. If you read closer, you will see that what I said was, I've been using it with the soundcard that I have, and the quality is horrendous. There is a lag between the tracks, and it sounds as though I have an open mic somewhere that is picking up white noise and garbage. I've used the software off and on to lay down a rhythm and improvise leads, to practice, etc, but never to record anything semi-serious, because of the quality. I am not completely new to this arena, but I was suddenly in a hurry. Instead of having a couple months to research and contemplate hardware upgrades that will work for my specific application, I had a few choices: 1) Go to a music store, and trust that they are selling me the equipment that I need. 2) Trust myself, and my currently level of knowledge, and buy a product that appears to me to be sufficient or 3) Ask for help from a group of people that have a love for the subject, and stand to gain nothing from my choice. Rather than potentially waste my money . . . and my time, I chose the third option. I have every intention of continuing my research, and in the future, the upgrades won't be such an immediate mystery. If you'll notice, I've stuck around here and involved myself in answering questions as well. I wasn't interested in stealing your time, or most of all . . wasting it. Your time, your recommendations, and your suggestions were appreciated, and in some cases, followed to the letter. I have spent a significant amount of time on forums dedicated to various subjects, some of which I listed for you in an above post. I know how these places work, and I've often posted, "Try looking four posts down from this one, you'll find your answer there." However . . . I've done my share of answering the same question over and over again as well. This is all by choice. I choose to answer their questions, point them in the right direction, or not get involved. I would ask you that to please choose better in the future. I mean, after all, if you think I'm lazy, etc . . . what's a bigger waste of time? Answering the question, or spending time writing a post about what a big waste of time it would be to answer the question? If that isn't sufficient for you, then I have to admit, you caught me. I'm not what I say I am. I'm a spy, sent here from another planet to trick you into giving up your hard earned information by formulating a story about my father and uncle's country music band needing me to record them a CD in my one bedroom house in Tulsa Oklahoma. You got me . . . but let's try to keep it a secret eh? I'll lose my ride home if they find out I was so sloppy in my mission. Rob.
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#22
10-15-2004
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Good luck, Rob. And don't be a stranger.
__________________
Newest endeavor: Playing drums in a live band version of 7 Door Sedan's music. __________________ "Do yourself a favour just shut up, read up then put up." --muttley600
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#23
10-17-2004
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My judgement was based on your statements, so I would suggest that you choose better in the future. Just to point out the obvious reasons why your attempt to rehabilitate your original post fall flat- First, you made it clear initially that you felt your time was more valuable than ours. You subsequently acknowledged that you knew that was the impression you were giving. And, of course, that was the impression I got because that's exactly how you felt. Second, you said that you "appear to have a good array of software" that certainly implies that you really didn't know WHAT it is that you had which, by extension, would mean that you hadn't really made use of it. Last, while I appreciate your concern with how I make use of my time, it's really not your business. If I feel that your post warranted the response I gave, then you'll just have to live with it. We'll have to see if I've misjudged you or your intentions. I most certainly have NOT misjudged your actions. I wish no one ill. You made an inconsiderate, in my mind, first post and I responded as I felt appropriate. I've defended my words and, for my part, the matter is closed. Good luck to you. Ted
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#24
10-20-2004
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Thank you MadAudio, appreciate it!
tedluk, you're clear as mud. Having said all of that, you've made your opinion very well known. In light of your stated opinion, I believe there's really only one relevant thing that any intelligent person would say in response. I will attempt, in my own unique way to relay to you my version of that statement: Blow me.  I love this card TexRoadKill! Rob.
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