The Beatles Mixing............?

[Feanor IV]

Hello,

I was checking out the mixing in some Beatles recordings the other day ("Rubber Soul", "Revolver" and some more stuff from that period), and noticed that they tend to have the lead vocals almost entirely on the right and the rhythm guitars on the left. The backing vocals typically go with the leads, except for the "ooohs" and "aaahs" which go on the other side. I am totally new to the whole thing, so I was wondering if this is typical in mixing, or if it was of that decade or if it's just what the Beatles & their producers liked!

Cheers & thanks!

Menelaos

[Blue Bear Sound]

Actually, it was more likely an error during mastering..... stereo was just becoming more popular and it may have been that a mastering engineer misinterpreted a recording intended to be released mono....

It is also possible that it was intentional, and was a consequence of the consoles of the time not having PAN control, but rather only left/right/center switches, for each channel......

Either way, it is generally accepted in modern mixing that a well-balanced soundstage between the speakers is best practice. (Try listening to a lop-sided mix on headphones - it tends to be very disconcerting - especially with a bass panned to one side... awful!)

[BrettB]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

Actually, it was more likely an error during mastering..... stereo was just becoming more popular and it may have been that a mastering engineer misinterpreted a recording intended to be released mono....

It is also possible that it was intentional, and was a consequence of the consoles of the time not having PAN control, but rather only left/right/center switches, for each channel......

Either way, it is generally accepted in modern mixing that a well-balanced soundstage between the speakers is best practice. (Try listening to a lop-sided mix on headphones - it tends to be very disconcerting - especially with a bass panned to one side... awful!)

I remember a long discussion we had about this

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by BrettB

I remember a long discussion we had about this

Oh come on, here? In this place???

[Feanor IV]

is that thread still online?

[Feanor IV]

Ehm, btw, what I actually was thinking about that was that since stereo was a rather new thing then, they were a bit exagerating with their mixes trying to make it as obvious as possible

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Feanor IV

Ehm, btw, what I actually was thinking about that was that since stereo was a rather new thing then, they were a bit exagerating with their mixes trying to make it as obvious as possible

More this than anything I think. Look at the confusion around surround mixes when they first came out, should just the vocal be in the center channel, only kick in the sub, etc ...

Obviously George Martin could have fixed this in the latest remixes but chose not to, it's a signature of the era.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

Actually, it was more likely an error during mastering..... stereo was just becoming more popular and it may have been that a mastering engineer misinterpreted a recording intended to be released mono....

Not likely at Abbey Road.

[glimmer_doll]

i think it's not uncommon for stuff from that era to be mixed all wonky like that...pull out your early Doors records...

[Cloneboy Studio]

I can't help thinking of the early Van Halen records....

[Ronan]

what you are referring to is called "Beatles Panning" for obvious reasons. Although it is not very coomon today many of the elements of it are still really useful. It can be strange to put vocals, bass or kick drum off to the side these days, it works really well for most other things. I actually really like lop sided mixes. Not the same way all the way though a mix, but I like having a mix change its left right energy and focus though out a song.

[Feanor IV]

What exactly do you mean? Is there any song I can hear this "effect" on?

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Feanor IV

What exactly do you mean? Is there any song I can hear this "effect" on?

A lot of Jazz recordings in the 60's also had drums panned to the side or horns panned hard left or right with ambience panned to the other side.

For a sample of the Beatles, check out the Sgt. Pepper's CD and mute either side. It's fun listening.

[cordura21]

Here's an interesting quote from a 1987 interview:

"ALLAN KOZINN: Still, even as late as the "White Album," you've got a different violin solo in "Don't Pass Me By," the airplanes coming in at different times in "Back in the USSR." They were clearly still entirely separate mixes.

GEORGE MARTIN: Yes, we were still doing different things then, but I was still working towards the compatibility, and in fact my attempts on "Rubber Soul" were to find a decent mono result from a stereo record. As you know, if you put something in the center, it comes up four dB louder in mono than it does in stereo. But if you tend to balance your things between one side and the other....And also, I was aware in those days that the majority of record players in the home were built into kind of sideboards, where the speakers were about three feet apart, and the stereo picture was a very near mono one anyway. So I exaggerated the stereo to get a clearer effect. These were experiments. It wasn't a question of rushing, I really was trying all sorts of things."

Full interview @ http://abbeyrd.best.vwh.net/kozinn.htm

[ryanlikestorock]

Has anyone heard of the Canadian indie groups Eric's Trip or Elevator? They're both headed by this guy Rick White who has been doing this crazy panning stuff really well. Even in thicker, louder songs, he pans some shit really hard. It's strange, but I enjoy listening to it.

[BrettB]

Or Song For The Dead on the latest Queens of The Stone Age record: After the intro all the drums are panned to one side.

I thnik it's great that a modern rock band is not afraid to take some mixing risks;

[glimmer_doll]

fundamentally loathsome by marilyn manson uses some hard panning in the verses, and switches to a more conventional mix in the chorus...

it's an interesting effect, but i wouldn't mix like that on a regular basis...

[LemonTree]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

(Try listening to a lop-sided mix on headphones - it tends to be very disconcerting - especially with a bass panned to one side... awful!)

watching a band play live has the bass player on one side or the other.....wouldn't you pan out to 10 o'clock 0r 2 o'clock in this case Bruce? I always have the live band on stage image when I mix for some strange reason.

[Nik D]

Originally Posted by LemonTree

watching a band play live has the bass player on one side or the other.....wouldn't you pan out to 10 o'clock 0r 2 o'clock in this case Bruce? I always have the live band on stage image when I mix for some strange reason.

Bass waves have no directionality because they're so long. I think that panning the bass that little wouldn't make much of a diffrence in the end.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by LemonTree

watching a band play live has the bass player on one side or the other.....wouldn't you pan out to 10 o'clock 0r 2 o'clock in this case Bruce? I always have the live band on stage image when I mix for some strange reason.

The location of the player may not be relevant - if the band is mic'd, then very little of the backline amps is heard by the audience -- most of the sound will come from the PA.

Also - if the band is not mic'd, then the relative non-directionality of the low-end probably covers any bass localization.....

[grn]

so what then is really wrong with say panning the drums hard left? if you can balance out the dB with everything else in the mix like george martin did? so it doesn't sound lopsided, but you have guitars on one side, drums on one side, bass on one side, vocals, etc.

most people can't tell if a song is poorly recorded unless they hear an abnormal amount of hiss... so I guess it wouldn't apply to the general public... people listen to 64kbps mp3s and are content. I guess you could sell any crap recording is the person was famous and it was good song writing/performance.

[Cloneboy Studio]

Originally Posted by Nik D

Bass waves have no directionality because they're so long. I think that panning the bass that little wouldn't make much of a diffrence in the end.

Unless the L speaker and R speaker end up through some typical audio Gremlin interference of being out of phase, or one cone pushes while the other one pulls.

Then you, my friend, will sound like total butt.

[Cloneboy Studio]

Originally Posted by grn

so what then is really wrong with say panning the drums hard left? if you can balance out the dB with everything else in the mix like george martin did? so it doesn't sound lopsided, but you have guitars on one side, drums on one side, bass on one side, vocals, etc.

Unless you are going for a special effect it sounds wrong--really wrong on headphones. It doesn't take advantage of the full stereo spectrum. It just sounds dumb to me. Go for it if you want. There aren't any rules--I'm just telling you why *I* don't do it.

Originally Posted by grn

most people can't tell if a song is poorly recorded unless they hear an abnormal amount of hiss... so I guess it wouldn't apply to the general public...

No, they will just think it sounds bad--or worse (if you're a pro engineer) that the BAND sucks. Bands like to record with people that make them sound better than what they really are; they won't record with (for long anyway) someone that makes them sound bad. Unless that album sells a ton for some strange reason.

[LemonTree]

Originally Posted by Nik D

Bass waves have no directionality because they're so long. I think that panning the bass that little wouldn't make much of a diffrence in the end.

I should also add I find panning the bass out slightly to whatever side gives me a bit more defenition than having it sat in the middle with the kick drum and the vocals

[COOLCAT]

i'd read Martin recorded everything like a factory (same set-up pretty much)..
up into Revolver and Rubbers...and on.

really amazing for the equipment (number of tracks)...
he's done a couple books..Ears something and Making Musuc or some sht.

talks about specifics of mixing placements (and why..limitations of equipment).

fhkng amazing really, and White Album is pretty decent sounding.

I love em' all, but have trouble getting the records to play thru my home stereo well, kinda boomy..... headphones are decent.

Abbey Road was pretty good technically too....

Eric Clapton's Playing with my Johnson is a fhkng great new blues record, got groove......sometimes that makes up for some technicalitys.

I still have hit and misses, one song will go great and transfer...next recording like I don't know wht the hell happened...so the factory-consistency kinda impressed me, you shouldn't have to start from total oblivion every fhkng time one records you know?