Self-Styled Masters

[Cloneboy Studio]

Why is it that people that barely know how to record their own music, and don't know how to mix, all think they can "master" their recordings?

I don't get it.

I don't think they even know what the process means. I think they just heard they had to do it, and it has something to do with being really loud.

This is starting to be a pet peeve of mine around here.

I mean... if you blindly mix your projects and they don't sound so hot, why the heck do you think you can master it???

[Massive Master]

I don't want to just blatantly agree with you...


But I do.

[Cloneboy Studio]

Yesterday I "mastered" a project because I can do an average job and the band wasn't going to have anyone else master it. They just wanted an audio capture of their last gig as a band for their own enjoyment. In cases like this I will spend a few hours and master it for them; set song pointers, check for errors, equalize overall loudness, bring up the levels, make sure the low, mids and highs stay consistent, check phase, and so forth.

I also give them the raw 24 bit mixdown JUST IN CASE they want to have it professionally mastered later down the line. I explain to them that I am NOT a mastering engineer by a long shot--my forte is mainly mixing and to a slightly lesser degree recording.

However, I have 16 years of recording experience and know my limitations.

The one thing is I'm looking for a new mastering engineer, the one I used to use went back to recording instead of mastering because there's more work for him doing that. Anyone want some biz?

[Massive Master]

Okay.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by Massive Master

I don't want to just blatantly agree with you...

But I do.

Same here.........

Why do you think I keep posting links to Katz' book?? If people read that they'll quickly see how involved the process is...

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Cloneboy Studio

Why is it that people that barely know how to record their own music, and don't know how to mix, all think they can "master" their recordings?

I don't get it.

I don't think they even know what the process means. I think they just heard they had to do it, and it has something to do with being really loud.

This is starting to be a pet peeve of mine around here.

I mean... if you blindly mix your projects and they don't sound so hot, why the heck do you think you can master it???

It's mostly for economic reasons, and in some cases ego or ignorance (that's what we're here for hopefully).

As far as a mix engineer doing some "pseudo mastering" with a finalizer and/or plugs I think it's a good idea for test demos (I recommend this for my students). Some clients may not be able to anticipate what their material will sound like mastered. It can also show them what happens with reverbs or tracks that are too loud in a mix but sound OK in an unmastereed mix. Always keep an unmastered version though for the ME.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

Same here.........

Why do you think I keep posting links to Katz' book?? If people read that they'll quickly see how involved the process is...

The better the mix the less involved it is though. Mastering is really about quality assurance before pressing.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

The better the mix the less involved it is though. Mastering is really about quality assurance before pressing.

Absolutely.... that's what I was getting at.... if people learn more about the process, they'll understand its function in the overall production process and how each production phase relates to the next.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

Absolutely.... that's what I was getting at.... if people learn more about the process, they'll understand its function in the overall production process and how each production phase relates to the next.

IMHO the one thing Bob's book doesn't really cover well is critical listening. There are some great explanations of techniques, however the novice will have a tendency to try to use all of them. I suppose we're all guilty of this to a degree. As soon as we get a new piece of gear there's an inclination to use it on everything. Likewise with BK's book I hope people aren't going to try to M/S process everything that they try to master.

Don't get me wrong, BKs book is the best source I've seen on mastering techniques, it's just that it's not the whole picture. It's very difficult to write a book on "taste" and critical listening/ear traning takes years to develop.

[Blue Bear Sound]

True -- but what Bob's book clearly illustrates is how detailed and involved the mastering process is (aside from critical listening) - which, so it would seem, 95% of home-recordists have no concept of. In recommending that people read it, THAT is what I'm hoping they'll take away from it, at the very least!

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

True -- but what Bob's book clearly illustrates is how detailed and involved the mastering process (aside from critical listening) - which, so it would seem, 95% of home-recordists have no concept of. In recommending that people read it, THAT is what I'm hoping they'll take away from it, at the very least!

I wonder if some kind of critical listening poll could be set up on this BBS?

For example:

"Rate the following mix/master on a 1-5:"

Distortion
Listening Fatigue
Frequency Balance
etc.

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

I wonder if some kind of critical listening poll could be set up on this BBS?

For example:

"Rate the following mix/master on a 1-5:"

Distortion
Listening Fatigue
Frequency Balance
etc.

Sounds like a good idea.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by HangDawg

Sounds like a good idea.

It should somehow be done anonymously so that feelings aren't hurt and it doesn't turn into some kind of flame war.

[Carter]

Set it up, Im game.....

[Simman]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

It should somehow be done anonymously so that feelings aren't hurt and it doesn't turn into some kind of flame war.

You got that right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are folks on this board that get all twisted over what people have in their signature block.

Brings to mind the old joke, how many audio engineers does it take to change a light bulb?


























Five – 1 to change it and the other 4 to tell him how they can do a better job….

[kylen]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

I wonder if some kind of critical listening poll could be set up on this BBS?

For example:

"Rate the following mix/master on a 1-5:"

Distortion
Listening Fatigue
Frequency Balance
etc.

Now we're talkin ! Fenix and some other folks had something goin along those lines last year - very cool I thought

[kylen]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

It's mostly for economic reasons, and in some cases ego or ignorance (that's what we're here for hopefully).

As far as a mix engineer doing some "pseudo mastering" with a finalizer and/or plugs I think it's a good idea for test demos (I recommend this for my students). Some clients may not be able to anticipate what their material will sound like mastered. It can also show them what happens with reverbs or tracks that are too loud in a mix but sound OK in an unmastereed mix. Always keep an unmastered version though for the ME.

I like that answer along with a couple of things BB said too.

Why shouldn't people put the songs in their heads down in a recording, add some tracks, mix it and get the best sounding results they can with the tools they have at their disposal. Experience , tools, and budget will grow if that's the direction the person wants to persue. Or maybe the person is a budding engineer you have the opportunity to help - the next generation you know ? I wouldn't doubt if there are some young folks here age 12 or so using their Dad's equipment learnin. It's not an exclusive club - everyone loves music some are better than others at making it but it's so fun to try if you have the spirit too.

I wouldn't discourage anyone from that - also getting reviews from your peers and posting songs on the internet in competition with other independents is too cool ! If the person decides they want to really persue a serious goal of getting in the 'music industry' then they might visit some of you guys that hang around here with your 'pro' mixing/mastering studios. These guys might be your future customers, a certain percentage could be so I don't go dissin the amatuer - 'Amateurs just wanna have fun' Isn't that a Cindy Lauper tune or something !

[Tonio]

Its Girls just wanna gave fun I believe. But I do agree with what you're saying.

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

IMHO the one thing Bob's book doesn't really cover well is critical listening. There are some great explanations of techniques, however the novice will have a tendency to try to use all of them. I suppose we're all guilty of this to a degree. As soon as we get a new piece of gear there's an inclination to use it on everything. Likewise with BK's book I hope people aren't going to try to M/S process everything that they try to master.

Don't get me wrong, BKs book is the best source I've seen on mastering techniques, it's just that it's not the whole picture. It's very difficult to write a book on "taste" and critical listening/ear traning takes years to develop.

I have'nt gotten Bob's book yet, hopefully soon. I do go to the site for re-checking ME's purpose that gives me a better outlook on to the "whole process".

Recently I have heard about this M/S approach, but did not get a full explaination, it would greatfully appreciated if you could explain this!!
The critical listening poll idea would be great. That has got to be the the most important part of this whole process no? I remember a while back some board(can't remember which) had a link to a quiz, and of course it was anonymous. Or maybe post a quiz, and have a percentage scale of passing and/or not type dealio. Of course the answer key would have to be posted somewhere for self checking. Just and idea.
I am nowhere near the caliber as some of you "big" guys, but I appreciate you hanging here!!

[kylen]

Originally Posted by Tonio

Its Girls just wanna gave fun I believe. But I do agree with what you're saying.

OK then - Girls it is ! Let's have some fun Girls - and learn, and work hard, and after some time some good sounds will begin to come out of our speakers !

Tonio - if you search for "mid side" you should be able to catch a thread or 2 where masteringhouse goes into m/s in the mastering environment in some detail. It's also a micing technique so you can find lots of stuff on the internet about that too.

[NL5]

Hey, I'm game as well.....

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by kylen

OK then - Girls it is ! Let's have some fun Girls - and learn, and work hard, and after some time some good sounds will begin to come out of our speakers !

Tonio - if you search for "mid side" you should be able to catch a thread or 2 where masteringhouse goes into m/s in the mastering environment in some detail. It's also a micing technique so you can find lots of stuff on the internet about that too.

coolness Kylen! whatever works eh?LOL

I am aware of M/S for micing technique, which I use ocassionally-good stuff!!
Your are correct that I could have used the search feature, just wanted to get some insight from Tom