Give me your reference list for hard rock/metal...

[SittinIdol]

What are the CDs you use to reference to when mixing hard rock or metal...just need some songs to get a range for the low end, relative volumes etc...

Thanks

[Massive Master]

"The Dark Saga" by Iced Earth - The title track is what heavy metal is all about.

(Metallica, a.k.a. "The Black Album") by Metallica - Good production, lotsa highs.

"Pooch for President" by Pooch Carver - Hard to find...

[Stealthtech]

I like referencing to Three Days grace
and some of the newer RUSH

[Cloneboy Studio]

For rock music I look for mixes that have balance, clarity, power and authentic, but big, reproduction of the instruments. My references for mixing rock:

Nirvana - Nevermind: one of the last good sounding albums before the loudness wars. Basically an album made to an exacting 80's standard with the 90's sound. Excellent clarity and balance of all the elements of the song--bass, guitar, drums and vocals all have their place. Doesn't try to get too fancy. Great frequency response. This is how a 'heavier' album should sound.

Led Zeppelin - Presence: very full sounding without ever becoming cluttered. Amazing high end... any more and it'd be too much, any less and it would be too little. Mids are very articulate sounding, everything is well defined despite the occasionally busy structures. The drum sounds are a high, high benchmark.

Def Leppard - Hysteria: cheesy album, but the production is larger than life. Once again everything has its place in the mix. What really impresses me is the stereo space utilized, without ever becoming too wide. I'm not so sure if the mix is a great mix or there was just so much painstaking effort in attempting to capture each instrument to the highest fidelity. A Mutt Lange classic.

AC/DC - Back in Black: another cheesy album, and another one by the Mutt, but the mix on this album is hot. Excellent balance of putting the guitars forward in a mix without sacrificing everything else. Bass guitar sort of takes a back seat, but you can still *feel* it, which I think was the point. Another benchmark for how rock should sound.

[Ronan]

Slayer-reign In Blood!!!!!!!

[kylen]

See if you like the sound of any of these tunes on the latest CD by Melissa Auf der Maur, ex-Hole - the thing smokes IMO and has a good balance but is pretty loud too.

http://www.aufdermaur.com/

There's a pop-up you can get the jist of the songs - they're in low bitrate streams...

I guess the CD is just called 'Auf der Maur'...

[glimmer_doll]

Prodigy - Fat of the Land

The Eagles - Long Run

Mercyful Fate - Don't Break the Oath

Bryan Adams - Waking Up The Neighbors

Aqua - Aquarium

David Bowie - Let's Dance

Marilyn Manson - Antichrist Superstar

Dr. Dre - 2001

Papa Roach - Love Hate Tragedy



and it has to be in that exact order! truuuuust me....

[jeff5xo]

Story of the Year- Unbelievable drum sound
Three Days Grace
Thornlee
Disturbed

[Kronk]

Led Zep Presence

To each his own..but thats one of the worst sounding ablums. Harsh, gritty, headache. You couldnt possibly A/b anything modern with that and you wouldnt want to

Try Fuel Something like Human and the other one for full range beauty

Anything by Randy Stuab is gonna be amazing like, the Black Album, Nickleback(who suck), Shinedown for hyper hi-fi wide sound

For in you face dry crunchy compression Disturbed Believe

[Farview]

Metallica: Black Album

Disturbed: Believe

Dream Theater: Awake

[SittinIdol]

not to answer my own thread but here's some I've been using

Tool - Undertow
The low end on this album is INSANE, not sure if that's a good thing or not, but it seems to stay tight, maybe because the volume overall is comparatively low.

Tool - Lateralus
A more produced sound but still lots of low end

Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger

Corrosion of Conformity - Deliverance and Wiseblood

Audioslave

Jerry Cantrell - Boggy Depot and Degradation Trip

Deftones - Behind the Fur

Alice in Chains Dirt

The Mars Volta: Deloused in the comatorium

These are just some in my collection that are kind of similar to what we're going for soundwise, which I think all sound pretty good

[guhlenn]

behind the fur? LOL around...

Anyway, I'll second lateralus, although the low end is kinda weird.. too much in the car (can you hear "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM") too little without the usual extra bass on crappy homestereo.. But GREAT one headphones..

ANd can't sya it enough; MAchine head's the more things change.

And yes the black album...

[ryanlikestorock]

Originally Posted by Cloneboy Studio

Nirvana - Nevermind: one of the last good sounding albums before the loudness wars. Basically an album made to an exacting 80's standard with the 90's sound. Excellent clarity and balance of all the elements of the song--bass, guitar, drums and vocals all have their place. Doesn't try to get too fancy. Great frequency response. This is how a 'heavier' album should sound.

I prefer In Utero myself. Nevermind is just way too slick for dirty rock.

[guhlenn]

no offense, but i think the argument that rock should be badly produced is utter crap. No argueing about taste, i know... but yours sucks!

[ryanlikestorock]

Originally Posted by guhlenn

no offense, but i think the argument that rock should be badly produced is utter crap. No argueing about taste, i know... but yours sucks!

Production isn't linear. "Bad" production is something entirely different from what I'm talking about. I just don't think Nirvana was the type of band who could benefit from huge reverbs, an abundance of compression and too much chorus. Obviously they agree with me or they would have went to Butch Vig for their next album.

Steve Albini told me once that he thinks In Utero sounded better before it was mastered but I haven't had the chance to hear the mixes. Even with the "bad" mastering job, I really like the sound of that record. I think the production style is 10x more effective than Nevermind.

Now, if a band like Radiohead went into the studio for a week to crank out their next album with that live, raw sound, it might not be as effective. However, I think Nirvana was more appropriately represented as that kind of band.

[guhlenn]

we'll have to agree to disagree. I liked nevermind. I never got why people thought it sounded "too commercial". Maybe they where used to thë "bleach" sound and just thought that the nirvana sound was supposed to suck

LOL.

To each his own I guess.

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by ryanlikestorock

I just don't think Nirvana was the type of band who could benefit from huge reverbs, an abundance of compression and too much chorus. Obviously they agree with me or they would have went to Butch Vig for their next album.

Two Points on this: The big reverb and chorusing, ultra compression are all mix isssues. The mix of that album that you are refering to was mixed by Andy Wallace. There was an original mix of the album by Butch Vig that the label rejected. (This is all second hand, I was not involved with the album)

Also, I think you could argue since this album sold well in excess of 10 million records and became one of the most important albums of a generation that the band may have benifited by all these things.

Fun Nevermond food for thought: Part of the album was done at a small studio in the mid west, other part was done at big bad ass LA studio. Kick drum sounds exactly the same all the way through the album. hmmm?

[brich2929]

I like

the Foo Fighters: The Colour and the Shape

it has some good dynamics in it

i have to second Prodigy's "Fat of the Land"

and add Stone Temple pilots " Purple" and Portishead's "Dummy"

[glimmer_doll]

Originally Posted by guhlenn

no offense, but i think the argument that rock should be badly produced is utter crap. No argueing about taste, i know... but yours sucks!

hey guy...in utero is a wicked sounding album! it actually sounds real....y'know, like an actual band actually played everything

you sound more like you're a fan of...pop-rock...aren't you?

I know there are some poison cd's in your collection, aren't there? be honest..

[wimat]

I think Helmet has some of the best sounding rock albums out there. Especially Aftertaste, I can't get over the drum sounds on that one.

[ryanlikestorock]

For crazy insanity hardcore, Converge "Jane Doe" is about as abusive as they get. It's a good reference.

For the poppy rock stuff, I really like Weezer "Pinkerton". It's not "the best" by any means, but I think it sounds great. The massive drums, HUGE distorted bass, yet still very clear vocals.

[Cloneboy Studio]

I didn't list albums that I personally thought were the best albums--we are talking about reference. Not many people want to sound like "In Utero" but a helluva lot of people want the sonic punch, transparency and power of "Nevermind".

Personally I prefer the sound of "In Utero" but I don't get to determine what my clients like. Sometimes bands will want that rawer pro sound, and sometimes they want it polished.

If you ask me it is more challenging to get a polished raw sound than a slick polished sound. The reason why is you have to leave stuff alone more than you are used to--and the band has to ROCK. Last time I checked most bands are pretty average and unable to rise to that challenge.

[Cloneboy Studio]

In some ways I think people confuse "good albums" with "good sounding albums" and they are not necessarily the same things. I think the "Black Album" (Metallica, not Jay Z) SOUNDS great but it isn't a good album--most of the songs are filler or just plain bad.

For example AIC's "Dirt" is a good album, but in my opinion it doesn't sound very good.

[Henri Devill]

The Cult's "Electric" is a good album for "raw" sounds

[guhlenn]

Originally Posted by glimmer_doll

hey guy...in utero is a wicked sounding album! it actually sounds real....y'know, like an actual band actually played everything

you sound more like you're a fan of...pop-rock...aren't you?

I know there are some poison cd's in your collection, aren't there? be honest..

LOL. Funny. I always thought my music taste was pretty bad-ass, then i realised that THAT DON'T MEAN SHIT. take your teenage angst somewhere else... It's pityfull. I like phil collins more then i like Slayer. Both are in my record collection. But then , i like hocico more then i like Nirvana. Go check that out. (i bet you like blink182! )