cheap speakers for mixing

[mojovoodoo]

ok, ok , i know it's not right, nor even possible to get a good mix with crappy speakers. i know , i have discussed this with so many people and had this discussion on many a forum, but......... i have been tearing my hair out for weeks on end. i am mixing my sister's band, which has so much instrumentation(i.e.; drums, bass, acoustic guitar , 2 electric guitars, piano, organs, synths, drum machines, strings, and about 4 vocal tracks) i am just trying to get over the e.q. and the compression hump, and just when i think i got a great mix, i bring it to a friend's stereo, and it sounds all mid ranged out, all muddy, and just very mono. i am using those alesis m1 active mk2 monitors, plus i have some small pioneer stereo speakers on top(just in case i think i need to hear it on a crappy stereo system) i have mixed on these speakers about 1&1/2 years ago, then took my mix to a very good studio, and the mixes sounded like crap, so, i knew then, the speakers sucked. and as of lately, i have no budget, so thus my crappy set up. but surely, there must be a closer reference monitor for the same price as these alesis ones? anyone have experience with these speakers? anyone switch up to a similar end of price but better results? anyone even know of maybe some crappy stereo speakers that would sound better than these alesis? i am asking so much, i know. i even need to address my mixing capabilities and my choice of effects and eq's, what i have realized is when i play back the mix on good speakers, that my levels are right, the eq is pretty fair, it sounds like a good mix, it just sounds like i am using monitors that have a lot of fake high and mid end on my monitors. i know my mixing skills need some help, but i have been comparing speakers, even the 2 sets on my desk, turning down one set, and turning up the other, and so forth. it gets really obvious when i start doing a speaker reference check, that my speakers are really in need of a trade in. i guess i will start another thread about my mixing skills. but i need a good name of a set of powered monitors that i can get pretty close to a good mixing space. please? thanks

[Cloneboy Studio]

No monitors are completely flat, some are just more or less flattering sounding as well as more or less honest. The important thing is to know your speakers... so listen to your favorite music on them a lot and constantly A/B them with your mix in progress.

I've done some good mixing on those Monitor One's before--it can be done. They're not great monitors by any means, but you can make 'em work.

[Cloneboy Studio]

Oh, if you want some active speakers that are decent my suggestions:

Genelec 1029's
Tannoy Reveal Actives
ADAM S1-A (there goes your budget )

Personally the Tannoy's are better than the Genelec 1029's. Genelec doesn't get really good until you reach the 1031's. The ADAM's obviously blow the other two out of the water but cost a ton.

The nearfields I'm getting next are the Tannoy Ellipse 10's. I can't quite make it to the ADAM S3 price tag just yet.

[mojovoodoo]

thaks for the input. i will check out those speakers you mentioned. i was listening to mixes of bands i really liked on those speakers, they sounded amazing, and i tried mixing(e.q. wise) close to some of my favorite mixes, yet when i brought it to other speakers, my mix still spounded dull. oh well. i need to do more listening

[MadAudio]

Also check out the Wharfedale Diamond Pro 8.2 actives. I got a pair recently and I'm lovin' them.

[Young Squire]

Yeah, definately check out the Wharfedales. I just got a pair also. They work great for my budget studio needs.

[jeff5xo]

I don't know what your budget is, but Cloneboy's right, the tannoy's are great. I have abuddy that owns them and they sound great. I own Studiophile BX5's ($299) and Krix Equinox ($499). Both are excellent for my small control room.

[dantell]

sounds to me like you have an orchestra to record. Mixing multiple instruments, vox, drums, synths, etc will sound muddy if you don't first figure out what is mainly driving the song. The main instrument needs to be out front(loudest) along with the main vocal. The rest of the instruments need to just slightly enhance the back ground. Try spreading them all over the stereo spectrum by panning them different percentages left and right. If its acoustic style make it the loudest. If it's a distorted rocker turn up the distorted guitar. Now on the bass drum and bass guitar or tuba whatever, you are going to need a subwoofer. If you are not willing to go out and spend the jack on some powered monitors, with your decent set of home speakers, hook up a sub. Bass is the frequency that will really muddy up the mix. If your eqing without at least an 8" bass speaker you may not hear it enough on your home system and you'll mix it too loud. If you have about 300 bucks Beringer makes a Truth monitor B2013A. It's active and not bad. I own a set along with the ones I had to mortgage the home with. They will get the job done, but suspend your speakers on stands and not on a big wood desktop. If there is too much wood it will reflect more bass, cause it's on the bottom of the speaker. Been there done it.
Or you could pay someone to mix and eq the instruments

[kylen]

That seems like a pretty perceptive & helpful mixing comment dantell even though mojovoodoo is asking about monitors...

Here's a cool trick I picked up from the forums - just like all cool stuff you don't use it every time - you use it when you need too. It's simple though so don't laff, OK go ahead then...

Monitor your entire mix in mono, stick the VST GlissEQ2 (or any parametric eq you like) on every track (you may not need it on all tracks - but you might). Now frequency carve depending on what major instruments you want to sit where - with more people in the mix someone has to be major, someone has to be more in the background. I mentioned Gliss EQ because you can actually overlay another tracks spectrum on any other track so you can see where the overlap is and use that as a guideline to carve. If you can hear it without a spectrum that's fine too.

Anyway once you've establised the general 'pecking order' of the top folks in the mix then you can use volume envelopes to bring certain other folks up front when needed and clear space for them by putting other folks slightly back.

Now switch back into stereo and see what you have - there's a whole world of establishing a stereo fild so twist some knobs for that too, hehe. Iterate between mono and stereo till you have a good stereo field and also instrument masking (frequency masking - I guess) is acceptable.

Then you can push all of that (full mix) into your mastering compressor/limiter and change the balance slightly again - while making it as hot and as cohesive (is blurry a better word ?) as you like. Make sure you save a safety copy before you do that so the mastering guys don't chew you & me out !

[mojovoodoo]

just curious, dantell, what are the other speakers you own that you had to take out a mortgage on your house? i got a new catalogue yesterday( dirty little magazine) so i was fantasizing over certain monitors. anyone ever hear the blue sky monitors? what about the event TR5, i know that a few years back event was a popular speaker for the price, what happened to them?

[brich2929]

Is your room acoustically treated? You can have the best monitors money can buy but I've learned from these boards that your room affects your perception of mixing the correct sounds also.

[mojovoodoo]

for years i been paying attention to where i listen to music. i have a small studio apartment with lots of carpeting , low ceilings, curtains, lots of stuff to deaden the sound(unintentionally) such as lots of padded chairs, and just random junk( my monitors point away from my windows), i sit with the monitors in front of me i go back and forth from about 1&1/2 to 4 feet away. they sit on a wooden desk, but the surface is so small that my Mbox, , mouse pad, keyboard and such take up space. a friend recommended a jerker desk by ikea, they have some specific little shelves solely for the speakers, i think you can adjust how high and far apart they sit. i do a lot of listening in different spaces, i even have a few different stereos in different spots in my apartment just to compare, but i am sure, this is not an ideal situation. thankfully, when i get work, people don't see my apartment, just the finished product.