where should I run an outboard pre on my 488MKII?

[Seeker of Rock]

I have a Joe Meek MQ3 preamp/compressor/EQ that I use as a front end to a JM47 for most of my tracking. Thus far I like the sound. Question is, am I sending my signal through two preamps by doing this? Seems like I would be, and I will feel quite humiliated if that is what I have been doing. Hmm, if so, any ideas where to direct the signal to avoid this?
Also, what are the "Insert 1 and 2" jacks on the front of the machine best used for? The manual says something about compression, but not sure how that would work with a compressor since the jacks use the double ring of a single jack as in/out; I believe a compressor would require an insert and a return (two cables).

[radiorickm]

i have a 424II, and dont know much about the 488

But, if you are going into the xlr , you are probably hitting the pre. sorry.

as for the insert. you asked the jacks use the double ring of a single jack as in/out; I believe a compressor would require an insert and a return (two cables).

this is what insert cables are used for. An insert cable has a trs plug, devided into 2 separated ts plugs. This could also be described as a stereo to (dual)mono L/R cord. It's like a divided Y adapter

The insert jack sends the signal out from the unit via the tip of the plug. It goes to the send end of the cord, to the compressor.

The other side goes to the return, and sends the signal back to the unit via the ring connector on the plug.

hope this helps

[DigitalSmigital]

The purpose of the insert is to give you access to the entire signal before it gets routed to the main mix via the channel fader, making it an excellent place to hook up your compressor or outboard EQ. Using an effects send (which is post fader) is no good for compression or EQ because the un-altered signal goes to the main mix AND the fx send.

And no, it's not good for the S/N ratio when you bump the signal with two pre-amps. Best to get it up to optimum as soon as possible in the signal chain.

[Seeker of Rock]

We are close but not quite...bear with me. I understand the working of an insert cable and the in/out signal from a single cable, and that is no problem. My question concerns the jacks this cable will be serving; doesn't the jack that the cable is intersecting have to be set up as a "send/return" or "in/out" on both ends to make this work? More simply put, I have an insert jack on the front of the 488 that will both send and receive a signal. I plug a stereo patch cable into this jack. Now, the other end of this cable only has one 1/4" male jack as well. Where do I plug it in on a compressor? If the answer is the "in" jack on the compressor, then is the signal returned to the board from the compressor via the "in" jack as well?

[The Ghost of FM]

Seeker of Rock,

Not too many compressors have the same 1/4" TRS connector inputs that your Portastudio has except for maybe the RNC compressor, which is a very good one by the way!

If you do intend to use both an outboard pre-amp and a compressor, it's probably best that you take the main out of the external pre-amp and plug that into the standard input on the Portastudio and just turn the trim down on it so it is acting like a line level input which should be quite clean at that level anyway.

I know the audiophile approach is to bypass the Portastudio's pre-amp completely but in many ways, it's not practical and of any real and demonstrate-ably different sound quality if you do it one way or the other.

My advice is to double pre-amp your signal and keep the original functionality of your insert patch point for your compressor and life will be much easier for you.

Cheers!

[mattamatta]

You dont want to use a regular stereo patch cable. You need one like this http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/333030/ . THat's how you hook up to both the in and out jack on an external unit. I have one just like that for the fx loop on my guitar amp.

[Seeker of Rock]

First of all, thanks for everyone's help. I think what I need to do is play around with it. The Joe Meek I use for my outboard pre does a fine job IMHO. I may try the insert thing on a dupliate track to compare signals with those I have sent through the mic/line input (the 488's pre). Since the source is arguably the most important part of the recording signal, I think it is paramount I get this right. Ghost, I believe by default (the MQ3 boosts the signal quite a bit) that I have had to cut back the trim on the 488 to keep from overloading the signal, so that has already been inadvertently done (unknowingly on my part, but I'm kicking myself now for not seeing the obvious). This whole thing may be more simple than I was making it. I have an outboard pre. I'm plugging my mic into the pre "in" on the MQ3, signal is amplified, routed to the MQ3 "out" into the 488 "insert" on the front of the board. I just wonder why they made this an "in" and "out" jack, that's what was making me question things. If this is the case, the insert is just a basic insert that bypasses the preamp and is exactly what I'm looking for. Just still a little confused of why it doubles with an "out" function on what would obviously be used as a signal input. And I bet this is where monty (another thread) found two of his 8 outs to output all 8 tracks of the 488, Oh well, that's where I'll start for now. Thanks again to everyone for your help.

[A Reel Person]

The "In & Out" scheme of an Insert jack is simply to save real estate. They pack the outbound (raw) signal and the inbound (effected) signal out/in to the same jack, and that's the basic glory of "Insert" (saving space), vs. discrete "Send/Recieve" (on two) jacks.

The "Insert" is an "inline" signal path, to which you'd plug any effects or processors "inline" to the signal on channel 1 and/or 2. That's opposed to the send-recieve loop of the EFF-SND jack and the extra INputs 9/10 or 11/12.

The "EFF-SND" effects setup would be more like a "global" effects send, able to route all 8 channels out/in,... where "INSERT" is "inline" to that single channel, 1 & 2.

[Seeker of Rock]

So it may be that I have been doing it right all along...using my Joe Meek pre into the board but using the board's trim to minimize the 488 preamp?