dither problem

[Rusty K]

Hello,

I'm getting over a 2db increase in amplitude on a particular master when I convert down to 44100/16. Before this particular track the most I've ever increased in aplitude is about 1db. Does anyone have a clue as to why the dither process is causing this much of a increase?

I had read on another tread that by keeping the master to about -1db this should be enough headroom to allow for dithering without causing a clip....not so in my case.

Thanks,
Rusty K

[Massive Master]

What's your signal chain / software, etc?

[Rusty K]

MM,

Thanks for your response.

XP, LynxOne 24bit, Cool Edit 2.0, T-racks Mastering...anything else you need?

Rusty K

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Rusty K

MM,

Thanks for your response.

XP, LynxOne 24bit, Cool Edit 2.0, T-racks Mastering...anything else you need?

Rusty K

Dithering should not be causing volume increases like this. Are you sure that it is just dithering, or is there some sort of limiting and make up gain occuring in your chain along with the dithering like an L2?

[Rusty K]

Tom,

No I can't think of anything different with this particular track. The track has some peaks but nothing more than usual. I applied some eq and squeezed with compression. I set the output at -2db with medium saturation. The pre downsample wav looks fine then I downsample with my editor and it goes to clip in a couple of places.

I'll try downsampling without dither to see if it makes a difference.

Rusty K

[kylen]

I didn't quite catch if the chain you describe includes T-racks dithering or if that's an effects chain and you dither later in Cool Edit.

At any rate T-racks doesn't do brickwall so if you've got a healthy enough transient it's comin thru. Cool Edit does have a brickwall hardlimiter if that's what you're looking for, otherwise you could normalize it (by hand using a track slider or using the normalize tool) to put the peaks wherever you want. What ever sounds better to ya.

I don't know why this one would be any different unless you're trying to get hotter this time. Probably more involved here too.

[Rusty K]

kylen,

I master at 48/24 in T-racks then final fades, trims, downsample/dither in Cool Edit.

I'm squeezing it but not near what I'd call "brickwall". All the brickwall presets make it sound like over compressed FM. I even cut the input gain on the preset to lessen the squeeze. It's a balad that goes from soft to hard and back and I'm just trying to get the biggest fullest sound I can.

Rusty K

[kylen]

Yes - T-racks had me chasing my tail on something like that too...What you can do is - get the sound you like with T-racks, back off the dynamics just a little (this is very tricky cause T-racks is so preset based), then push into a mastering limiter. You could call Cool Edit Pro 'Hard Limiter' a mastering limiter if you don't push in to it too hard, just enough to keep the 'overs' down - like a dB or 2 - I don't like the sound of it so I don't push into it much.

I use Elephant (VST-Voxengo) in Cool Edit as a Mastering Limiter (I set the Elephant output to -0.3dB so that's the brickwall ceiling on my home projects) but there's a free one called the Classic Limiter you can use. You need a VST wrapper too for Cool Edit if you don't have one - I use Cakewalks VST Adapter ($59).

Here's the free limiter:
http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-series.php

Push into that guy a few dB till you get the loudness you like .

[Rusty K]

Thanks kylen...I'll check it out!

Rusty K