WANTED: Portable Recording Recommendations

[AussieGal]

Hi everyone,

If any of you are able to help me out with some advice or recommendations for portable recording I'd be most grateful. I'll try and contextualise what I'm looking for by blabbing on a bit.

In the past I have recorded vocals and guitars, (occasionally with drums) on a Sony MZR-900 (mini-disc recorder). This has served well for putting songs or riffs down quickly so I don't forget them, and for showing accompanying musos "how it's meant to sound". Great for an audio "diary" as well.

Now, I'm keen to get something that is not so limited in its capabilities. Ideally, I want something portable on which I can record my songs from go to wo, and burn them onto CD. I've recently had the opportunity of experimenting with a Zoom PS-04, which is definitely the lower end of the multi-track spectrum, but can do some cool stuff for something so cheap.

A disadvantage I've found with it already is the editing software, and converting the files to .wav or .aiff files to burn onto CD on my computer. So what I'm looking for is something that can do all the fancy backing stuff, editing, mixing, mastering etc and that can burn it onto CD without compromising on the quality. I've had a look at some of the latest Zoom products but haven't had a chance to check out other brands and possibilities.

If any of you have any experience, advice, recommendations etc I'd love to hear from you. Oh, and forgive my lengthy post. It's my first time.

Cheers,

AG

[Cloneboy Studio]

I've used my Alesis HD24XR to record a number of live shows with great success.

[manning1]

aussie gal. this will cost you a bit. but if you have the budget look at
a amd 64 laptop. you should be able to get 80 tracks on one.
A CAVEAT. if you go this route make sure you get 512 mb memory and a blazing fast hard drive which audio needs. NOT 5400 rpm drives but 7200 rpm drives. and run powertracks from pgmusic.com that i use.
its only 29 bucks and will do 48 audio and midi tracks.
plenty enough for advanced productions. you can even burn to cd if you have a burner built into the laptop. you could use the on board sound of the laptop till you have the budget for say an external firewire type solution.
i'm no expert on firewire which is quite new but you might ask on the powertracks forum at pgmusic what powertrackers there are using. lots of helpfull knowledgeable folk there.
my advice also is stay away from usb outboard solutions.
if you want a cheaper solution a friend i just set up on his old pentium laptop for multitracking and he is getting 19 to 20 tracks. the laptop cost him 200 bucks. but the internal hard drive is very slow.
i hope this helps a bit.
the advantage of all this is you wont have to go thru all the contortions as your recording to wav using powertracks. and mixing to a stereo master
using powertracks which you can then burn to cd.
i assume you already have mics and a mixer. if you dont - you will need these.

[Cloneboy Studio]

I don't know if I'd trust a computer for live recording. Heck, I don't trust it for studio recording. But then again, I get paid and that makes a big difference as to whether or not reliability is an overriding issue.

[ausrock]

AG,

I don't know where you are exactly so I can't give specific advice, however, if it is practical, get to as many stores as you can that have "all in one" multitracks and do the research.........remembering that sales staff always think they know more than they really do and they'll probably try and talk you into what they want you to buy rather than what you may really need.

Instinct warns me away from Zoom but that's just me

[crosstudio]

cloneboy: do you trust computers for live playback? what's your issue?

aussiegal: you can go high (Laptop with firewire connected to Motu 828mkII) or you can go low (Laptop with USB connected to Tascam US-122/224).

I use a Dell Inspiron 8500 with a tascam us-428. the drawback to the 428 is that it needs a power supply, whereas the US-122 and US-224 use the power of the laptop via the USB.

there are standalone units of course, but that's not for me. with a laptop, the number of tracks i can have is only limited by the power of the laptop itself.

[Enchilada]

I picked up a Korg D16 cheap on eBay and I love it

[Cloneboy Studio]

Originally Posted by crosstudio

cloneboy: do you trust computers for live playback? what's your issue?

Reliability is the issue. Computers aren't 99.9% reliable in my experience regardless of OS, hardware, configuration, etc.

But I can be 99.9% certain that my HD24 will work without glitches, spikes, overrun errors, drivers getting corrupt, and the million other things that computers love to do.

I had one bad experience with a G4/MOTU 2408 MKII system that up and died on me at the start of recording session when I first started doing recording for money. Needless to say I looked like a total moron in front of paying clients.

Never again.

[leddy]

Tascam 788. 6 tracks simultaneously, decent (not great) mixing abilities, excellent sound. Can export wav files to CD to import to Protools etc. for best mixing option. Less than $800 with CD burner new.

[billisa]

Check out the Fostex MR8 (full 16bit uncompressed audio) or the more expensive, but very portable/capable Fostex VF80EX (great little machine that will allow you to record, mix and burn).

[AussieGal]

Thank you all for the ideas to follow up. It's very much appreciated.

I went to two local music shops yesterday to try and check out some of your recommendations - and was met with a very small choice, and a promise that they could "price-match" and "order anything in" for me. They had a few Zoom products , a Fostex 4-track cassette recorder, a Boss product which I was quite keen on (BR-1600CD) and then two Rolands (VS2480CD & VS-2480DVD.)

After checking out the Rolands I have bought some more lottery tickets and am hoping for the best.

Ausrock: I'm in Canberra - The City That Always Sleeps. You're absolutely right about the research - and I am trying, but it's very difficult to be in a city where the two (only two!) music stores that sell these products are owned by the same people. I wish I had the time to go up to Sydney for a few days and do some serious market research up there.

If any of you have any experience with the Boss BR1600CD I'd love to hear from you!

Anyway, with the help of you all I can hopefully narrow down the field to a few options to suss out more thoroughly when I have the chance.

Thank you all for your time in reply!

Cheers,

AG

[manning1]

aussiegal. i would suggest with respect you think very carefully about my experiences with proprietary standalone technology.
(eg the standalone recorders rather than a pc)
once a while back i bought into a piece of tech like this. it was fine for a year or so until it went wrong. i had trouble getting service. then i found out a key chip used in the unit was no longer manufactured.
i see a couple of issues thus with standalone recorders.
1. will future service be available as in my case.
2. how updateable is it.??
3. the track limitations.
i might be accused of being biased being a puter engr for eons BUT
at least with a computer if the motherboard goes bad normally its a quick motherboard swap for 90 bucks.
no tech is PERFECT. but let me say my own PC's work day in and out .
and never crash or go wrong. worst case was a power supply went flaky.
i put in a new one the same hour for 40 bucks. ie: quick turnaround.
try doing THAT QUICK A SERVICE TURNAROUND TIME USING A STANDALONE RECORDER.
its up to you.
dont take my word for it. talk to others like myself that run their pc's full
tilt. for months and months and years with no problems.
the people who have probs normally have not taken time with a little understanding of their PC's.
i also should say , the PC is here to stay forever in some incarnation or the other. you wont escape the advantages and flexibility it offers.
peace.

[billisa]

Originally Posted by AussieGal

Thank you all for the ideas to follow up. It's very much appreciated.

If any of you have any experience with the Boss BR1600CD I'd love to hear from you!
Cheers,

AG

A lot of people like Boss effects. However, their machines tend to compress data, not using a full 16 bit system. At the price of the BR1600, I wonder what a TASCAM 2488 would cost. Over here they're cheaper than the 1600 and look to do way more (24tracks,24bit recording).

There's also a Korg 1200mkII -- 12 tracks, 4 at once, can do 24bit. Very portable.

[ausrock]

Manning,

While your PC experiences may have been pleasant, for many others that is not the case and while I don't believe that "stand alones" are perfect, the same can easily be said for a PC based system. The majority of musicians just want to record their music, not have to worry about learning the inner details of their prefered recording device. Not everybody is capable of changing a h/drive or a pwr supply and have to rely on paying to have work like that done for them. Also, the cost of PC's and their components is usually considerably higher here in Aust., than in the US, so while your opinion may be valid for you, it may not be the best option for someone else.


AG,

I can't recommend any specific solution as I don't have experience with the current crop of compact style recorders, however I understand your situation re Better Music/Pro Audio.............I presume that is who you were refering to. I know some people who have set up for "lap top PC" recording, some are happy others aren't, same goes for the other options. It may be worth your while to browse eBay Aust., as you may find something suitable without having to pay too much and should you later decide to sell it, then there won't be such a loss due to depreciation.

[ausrock]

Just following on from billisa's post, Venue Music in Sydney are advertising the Tascam 2488 for $2595.

Just adding to that.......Ebay Aust., Music Instruments, Multitrack Recorders.......Drumpower in Melb., have the Tascam listed brand new w/-warranty on a "buy it now" for around $1995......... http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....749205520&rd=1 There are also a couple of other recorders that may be of interest in that listing.

[manning1]

ausrock. i see your argument. particularly about "just wanting to make music". in reply there is a "learning curve" even with a standalone.
and certainly there is a point about a need for a certain level of computer literacy on the part of the user.
and frankly i didnt realise your pc prices were so high.
here you can get a athlon pc for around 350 dollars.
i guess ive been burnt by proprietary tech severral times before before and am just offering the other side of the argument.
like future service issues.

[ausrock]

Manning,

"here you can get a athlon pc for around 350 dollars"...............that would be approx., $480Aust. Even a basic h/drive, say a Seagate 40Gb 7200rpm costs at least $100 here...... an example of a system....HP Pavilion Intel P4 2.8Ghz, 512 Mb ram 40 Gig h/drive with DVD+RW and a 15" TFT monitor......$2499.........I picked that randomly out of a sales brochure and while there are cheaper options, it is indicative of general pricing. Laptops start from similar dollars and go upwards from there.

[manning1]

ausrock. my god those prices are insane.
couldnt you import a pc . or do you get hit with import duty ?
check out our prices where i live.
heres a retailer example.
canadasys.com

[KEVIN1600]

I have a BOSS BR1600 CD which is awesome for mobile and home studio recording!

[ausrock]

Manning, if you were quoting Canadian $ then that makes the mark up out here even worse as my conversion was thinking you were in the US...........Canadian and Australian Dollars are fairly close as exchange rates go.

Chances are that import duties would be levied, but I doubt that they would be particularly high.

[billisa]

while i thnk PC's are just fine, and for editing, are better, i love my standalone (Fostex VF160). It's stable, reliable, portable, makes great recordings, burns error free CD's, is very quiet, and is "pre-configured" to be a recorder. In a year and a half of constant use, I've NEVER lost data, ever. The Fostex VF's also make it easy to upgrade the HardDrives.

On any given occasion, my current PC has had problems with the burner, the power supply, and other issues like freezes... It's probably not well configured, but no one seems to be able to figure out why.

So, if I were going to go the PC route, I'd use it ONLY for music recording/burning, I'd have it sound isolated and insulated, and I'd be VERY careful as to what I loaded on as time passed. The beauty is that the reason why these choices are so difficult is because there's somany great options no matter what direction you choose.

[manning1]

billisa - if you list in detail your pc confign i'll take a stab at figuring out why your getting problems.
my day job for eons was as a puter engr and product mgr for
hi tech organisations.
ive helped many folks (thousands actually over the past few years alone).
i enjoy the challenge !!

[billisa]

Originally Posted by manning1

billisa - if you list in detail your pc confign i'll take a stab at figuring out why your getting problems.
my day job for eons was as a puter engr and product mgr for
hi tech organisations.
ive helped many folks (thousands actually over the past few years alone).
i enjoy the challenge !!

Thanks! Let me give a few skeleton details, because I don't have all the particulars... How exactly can I get the precise info? (see how uniformed i am!)

Basically I'm running W98se on a Pentium II with 64mb of RAM and a 450mhz chip(i think). Here's a typical issue... When opening Outlook Express, if I request new mail while the old messages are opening, the program freezes. Dead. On my older, slower machine, with less RAM I can do this with no problems! In WORD, when I open a document, then close it and try to open another, the file search takes twice as long -- if i try this a third time, it takes even longer... Attempting a Find of a phrase or title in WORD takes forever, whereas again, on my slower Pentium it takes a matter of seconds... Just opening WORD takes five times as long on my "faster" machine than the one in my office.

My suspicion is that the computer has been set to do more than it needs to and thus it's memory and processing gets bogged down. Also, sometimes the PC will say access denied, or not ready for my A: and D: drives, then other times, no problems.

I'm convinced some settings are amiss, but that's a wild guess.

[manning1]

well firstly let me say these are old machines. only good for doing midi sequencing at best NOT modern high performance daw audio multitracking. on that p2 using outlook, why your confused that its slower could be several things.
1. the hard drive might be inferior for some reason.
i dont know even if you can enable dma on your hard drive on the p2.
maybe get a tech to look at that. in control panel click on system icon
then device mgr and click on drive PROPERTIES and see if you see a box called dma.
2. you might try a defrag.
3. look in your windows temp folder and see if theres a lot of junk .
in windows search for files enter *.tmp and see if you have a load of tmp files, over time these can build up and are junk files and left overs.
and windows has to keep track of all this junk. thus OVERHEAD.
OVERHEAD means SLOWER.
4. over time you can get a build up of cookies and junk surfing the net.
try deleting history and these cookie files in the browser.
i personally dont use outlook. i dont like it.
with respect no wonder you dont see the advantage of pc multitracking.
if you get a chance to see the difference try a modern athlon sometime at a dealers running powertracks that i use or n track or traktion. one BIG DIFFERENCE. whole new world.

[manning1]

also in outlook one other idea , and probably you might have done this
make sure you dont have a build up of OLD MAIL cluttering your hard drive, ie: either mail youve sent or received. clear your in box out for example.
a free email service i use instead of outlook is called canoemail.com.
thus i dont need outlook. also i dont seem to get spam etc with it.
also look for an alternative to word. there are loads pf free elegant
little word processors floating around the net. try googling for
"frree small word processing software".
what i do , if something is lengthy i compose my letter.
then copy it into my email i'm going to send from canoemail.com.
nice and easy.
just some ideas.