Anyone have advice on recording jazz fusion bass?

[ProgMetalShred]

Hey guys,

Haven't got any replies over in the G&B forum, so I figured I'd try my luck over here...

OK, here's the deal. I've been listening to a bunch of my jazz fusion cds lately and I really dig the tone and depth that I hear on these cds as far as the bass guitar goes. I'm talking stuff like John Pattitucci's solo stuff, older Chick Corea, DiMeola, etc. One of the last cds by Chris Botti (Sting's trumpet player) "Night Sessions" has some killer production and bass on it.

Anyway, I'm really green when it comes to bass stuff. I have an Ibanez 5 string SR505 with active pickups that I bought years ago. I've tried playing around with a Line 6 Pod going direct through the Tube Preamp setting, but that didn't sound too hot... nor did the Fender Bassman preset. They all lacked just about everything that I hear on the commercial cds.

As far as recording goes, I'm running an M-Audio Omnistudio with Sonar 3. I use Yorkville YSM-1p powered monitors with this rig.

So... anybody doing jazz fusion that has some clips or advice or really any info at all about how they are getting their best bass tone to tape/disc/whatever? I'd prefer if DI or something of that nature was used since I don't have, nor do I have room for, a bass amp, in my small studio space... plus another piece of obtrusive gear in the study/studio would surely get me bludgeoned with one of my hockey sticks from my wife.

Thanks for any advice you can throw my way. Don't hesitate to ask for more info if that will help.

Thanks and regs,
Jeff

[ssscientist]

Jeff -

You are trying to get million-dollar results from hundred-dollar gear. What you hear on the records mentioned has been groomed by recording engineers with decades of experience getting all the DI and amp tracks they carefully print, compress and composite combined into one SMOOTH mother fucking bass sound! If you heard the mixes of even the worst sounding record on your list in a studio setting it would make your head pop off...

Stick with what comes out of your fingers for now - don't worry so much about finding the perfect recorded sound. There are good sounds to be had in the Bass Pod that you can use to build your skills without getting bludgeoned by your wife. Then trust someone else to catch the million dollar sound from your million dollar playing!

[Ronan]

I have done lots of Jazz fussion and prog fussion type stuff. I do not really have much in the way of great news for you:

Its the bass you use and the fingers that play them. When I am recording a great bassist like Tony Levin, 80% of the sound is him. When I have crappy bassist there is very little I can do to get a great sound. Beyond that its a matter of not fucking up the sound with a crappy DI. A good DI will really help capture the full tone of the instrument (I almost always record with an amp as well, but sometimes mix only one or the other). I also compress a fair amount as well with good compressors.

I think Line 6 fake amps stuff is garbage but I have already gone into that rant on other threads (and others on this board have a very different opinion). I would say you are much better off ditching the Pod and getting a good DI from little labs, countryman or Radial Engineering.

[ProgMetalShred]

Thanks, guys. Sorry... didn't mean to make my post sound so "newbie-ish". I understand the deal about the million dollar gear, studio magic, etc...

Ronan,
I'm wondering how much of a difference would actually be heard between the 3 DI's you named vs. the CabTone (I already own), the SansAmp Bass DI or just plugging straight in to my M-Audio OmniStudio's mic pre's directly? Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Jeff

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by ProgMetalShred

Ronan,
I'm wondering how much of a difference would actually be heard between the 3 DI's you named vs. the CabTone (I already own), the SansAmp Bass DI or just plugging straight in to my M-Audio OmniStudio's mic pre's directly? Any thoughts?

I have not heard the CabTone, but Voodoo Lab makes some pretty cool pedals so I would certainly check it out. But that said I work in studio all over the world and I have never seen one in a pro studio, or known any of the players I work with the have owned one. The SansAmp DI is really popular and I like it for some applications, but usually when I am going for a slightly more colored sound. I have not plugged straight into the mic pres you mentioned (does it have a Hi-Z input?) but as far a DI's in general I have used many and only found a few that I felt were outstanding (Radial and Little labs) and even a few expensive ones did not impress me.

Like I said in my earlier post, the fingers playing the bass have SO much to do with the sound.

[sweetnubs]

I have a suggestion, how about not recording him at all. The last thing the world needs is another god-awful fusion album.

[sweetnubs]

Man those 80's king crimson albums were god-awful sounding-especially the album Beat comes to mind. Really bad digital sound, don't know if it was the engineer. I suspect really god awful digital effects employed by Fripp and company. Why are these musicians and engineers deaf? Digital artifacts a-plenty. My ears still hurt years later.

[Ronan]

Well I did not do any of the 80's albums but I did a bunch of other King Crimson recrords.

One thing I can chime in as insight is that Fripp and Co. have always been very interested in jumping on new gizmos which sometimes sound really, sometimes awful, but picking up on new technology and giving it a go is a big part of the bands M.O. Discipline is one of my favorite albums of all time and it could not have been made with out jumping into the deep end with new gear (guitar synths and the chapman stick).

Also sonicly those records sound like most of the records being made around that time in the 80s. Pretty harsh and maybe even sterile by todays standards, but very 1982.

[ProgMetalShred]

To which a wise man once said, "F*ck off and die". If you have nothing useful to contribute, feel free not to let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you, a*hole.

Ronan.. appreciate the suggestions. I've never been a King Crimson fan though. A little too "out there" for my tastes. I tend to favor the DiMeola, Greg Howe, CAB side of things with regards to fusion and things of that sort.

Thanks again,
Jeff

Originally Posted by sweetnubs

I have a suggestion, how about not recording him at all. The last thing the world needs is another god-awful fusion album.

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by ProgMetalShred

To which a wise man once said, "F*ck off and die". If you have nothing useful to contribute, feel free not to let the door hit you where the God Lord split you, a*hole.

We're all adults here. No need to mince asterisks...

[ProgMetalShred]

Yeah, well.. I'd have to say that the reply I received was anything other than that of an adult. More like an immature troll.

Carry on,
Jeff

Originally Posted by ssscientist

We're all adults here. No need to mince asterisks...

[sweetnubs]

dude your fret tapping and sweep-picking rules!