Karma Or Triton Le

[bsr2002]

My current rig is: Alesis QS.6, KORG X3, and YAMAHA Motif 6. I am planning on replacing the Korg X3 and wanted to know what would be the better deal for my money. I've read the specs on both, just wanted some feedback on some of you that already own one or both of theses boards.

Thanks,
Ben

[vijayjacob]

Hi I am a Triton le user. And when compared with the prices I suggest you to go for Le and the multi samples in that gear is really good compared to the X3 and same in case of controllers and sequencers. About Karma, it is a good one to produce new tones with its wide parameters. but it costs much more than le.
Vijay

[bsr2002]

Do either of these boards have portamento?

[silence]

Personnally, I hate the sounds delivered with the Triton Le. A guy I work with gave it to me so that I program sounds on it for him, and listening to the whole soundset was a pain in the ears. He does hip hop and wants good basses and drumkits, and I'll give him what he wants, but the problem is : the samples are not bad, but the whole soundset is far too dance oriented, the pianos are too light, etc. Once you put the arpeggiator and the FX off the programming, the sounds are weak. So to me, this synth is interesting is you reprogram it to your taste, which will give good results because the interface is good and the depth of the programming respectable, and if you buy the sampling option (which my friend didn't do).
And one thing I hate on this machine : only two filters (Lowpass and band pass/reject) per voice. I'm used to an emu sampler which sounds far better. But apart from the original programming, the Triton Le is a good inexpensive workstation, well done. But if you already have a master keyboard, you could seriously consider the Triton Rack (more expansion, better factory programming etc.).

[Drake19]

Hey Ben. I'm curios as to why you want to replace the X3 with another rompler. With your styles of music I would go with a MS2000 or a Nord Lead, basically a staight away synth. Of course you can do some synthesis on a Triton or MOTIF, but, for me, there's just something inducive to creativity when you have all your parameters right there looking at you. Plus haveing all those knobs looks really tight.

[bsr2002]

Hey Ben. I'm curios as to why you want to replace the X3 with another rompler. With your styles of music I would go with a MS2000 or a Nord Lead, basically a staight away synth.
===================================

Yeah, I'm looking at getting a Nord Lead as well. I am more comfortable with the Korg sequencers than with the Motif and the X3 has had it's time on the road. It will be more useful at the home studio. I'm leaning more towards the KARMA.

Cheers

[Gospelkeys]

Originally Posted by silence

Personnally, I hate the sounds delivered with the Triton Le. A guy I work with gave it to me so that I program sounds on it for him, and listening to the whole soundset was a pain in the ears. He does hip hop and wants good basses and drumkits, and I'll give him what he wants, but the problem is : the samples are not bad, but the whole soundset is far too dance oriented, the pianos are too light, etc. Once you put the arpeggiator and the FX off the programming, the sounds are weak.

Couldn't agree with you more..

[Drake19]

Hey Ben. Just wanted to say right quick: I own the KARMA and I don't like it very much for acoustic type stuff or brass or organs but its pads, synths, strings and FX are great IMHO.

[bsr2002]

Originally Posted by Drake19

Hey Ben. Just wanted to say right quick: I own the KARMA and I don't like it very much for acoustic type stuff or brass or organs but its pads, synths, strings and FX are great IMHO.

Yeah, think I'm going to get a Karma. I'm getting an 88 key YAMAHA DGX-505 for pianos.

[tedluk]

Late to the party, sorry!

I just wanted to chime in on this one. I don't often get to talk about the KARMA and it's, perhaps, the least understood and most poorly marketed synthesizer on the market.

Unfortunately, I have never seen anyone in a music store that has even the slightest idea of what the KARMA is capable of. Sadly, one of the most incredible pieces of musical innovation sits largely ignored usually in a poorly lit, seldom travelled, corner of the keyboard room.

I've owned a KARMA for several years and, without a doubt, it is the deepest, most powerful, richest environment for creating a range of musical styles and taking you places you would never think to explore, nor be able to play physically.

The sounds are the Triton sounds. Certainly a highly successful, much used, though dated, soundset. It's hard to be overly critical since the Triton has become another industry standard for Korg. But the KARMA is SOOOOO much more!

I don't know what kind of music you're producing, the KARMA certainly isn't going to be for everyone. I think the user that will get the most out of the KARMA is going to be someone who has a lot of patience, loves to experiment and is interested in seeing where something will lead them. You can create evolving, ethereal walls of sound, beats, arpeggios the likes of which you could never imagine, industrial trash and most any kind of rhythmic mayhem you can think of. And you will have control over the most important parameters in real time. With the number of possible combinations (and it's staggering), you will NEVER exhaust the limits of sound creation of this machine!

If you are looking for a box to play back samples, please don't waste your money on the KARMA. That's not what it's meant for, though it can do that.

Also, if you DO get the KARMA, I strongly urge you to spend the extra money and purchase the KARMA MW software. This effectively doubles the KARMA function (when connected to your computer and sequencer) and also gives you KARMA's Vitrual Midi Driver which allows you to output the KARMA data to any MIDI device on your system.

If you're a Triton user, it's worth looking at the KARMA Triton software as well which essentially turns your Triton into a KARMA!

Check it out HERE

Stephen Kay is truly a genius (not a term I throw around) and this is ground-breaking technology and, what's even more amazing is that he's a great guy and you can talk to him directly through the forum. He's quick to respond and knows as much about the Triton as anyone around and MORE about the KARMA than anyone on the planet! (He should since he invented it!!)

The only negatives are that I wish it was more expandable- you can add 2 voice cards and the MOSS analog synth board- and it has a very poor keyboard although mine has held up and I play pretty hard.

I hope this helps BSR2002. There are few pieces of gear I get excited about, most of the gear I own I like and would recommend, but the KARMA is a unique instrument. And that's the real key- It's an INSTRUMENT! This is a synth you can constantly learn more about and improve your skills on.

And yes, it DOES have portamento!

Ted

[bsr2002]

Thanks Ted.

KARMA = "Keyboardist Against Revolting Mediocre Accompaniment"


Cheers

I will be buying that T-Shirt as well...

[LAZI]

"If you are looking for a box to play back samples, please don't waste your money on the KARMA. That's not what it's meant for, though it can do that.''

please exaplain this... i always though the karma couldn't playback samples...

[tedluk]

I'm sorry, Lazi, I should have said that differently. You are right, the KARMA isn't a sampler. What I meant was that its voice architecture is of the sample playback variety. In fact, it has the same voice architecture as the Triton.

Ted

[Atterion]

KARMA is simply the coolest keyboard around. It is extremely in depth. I love the pads where you can assign crazy chords and appregios to be triggered in realtime. And it is extremely fun to take an organ and have it sound like it is being strummed like an acoustic guitar, or have a Piano sound triggered and played like a pan flute. CRAZY!!! Lots of good realtime controls. I have one that is fitted with the Orchestral Collection (2x boards), and MOSS (think Z1) expansion boards. Other than the KARMA GE's (Generated Effects), and slightly reduced sound set, it is a TRITON. And it is a really cool color.

Note: All new v2.0 KARMA's include the MW software as standard. Which gives you the ability to create your own GE's

If you want to hear one really in action go check out any Nightwish album.

[tedluk]

Originally Posted by Atterion

KARMA is simply the coolest keyboard around. It is extremely in depth. I love the pads where you can assign crazy chords and appregios to be triggered in realtime. And it is extremely fun to take an organ and have it sound like it is being strummed like an acoustic guitar, or have a Piano sound triggered and played like a pan flute. CRAZY!!! Lots of good realtime controls. I have one that is fitted with the Orchestral Collection (2x boards), and MOSS (think Z1) expansion boards. Other than the KARMA GE's (Generated Effects), and slightly reduced sound set, it is a TRITON. And it is a really cool color.

Note: All new v2.0 KARMA's include the MW software as standard. Which gives you the ability to create your own GE's

If you want to hear one really in action go check out any Nightwish album.

Atterion- Are you sure version 2.0 includes the MW software? I searched Korg's site and several retailers and no mention was made of that. AFAIK, it's a separate purchase. It's not really a Korg product (the MW software, that is) Stephen Kay owns it. Korg licenses the technology for the KARMA from him, but they don't have anything to do with the software.

There's been a long standing rumor that he will eventually release a version called KARMA Creator that will work with any MIDI synth!! No date has ever been given.

Ted

[Atterion]

Yes it is now included. Both Sam Ash and Musicians Friend sell the Karma with the software. I wasn't sure of that myself when I bought mine (I bought a KORG rep. Demonstrator Model). But according to both those sites as well as the the official KORG product brochure, it is now included. It had to be purchased seperately if you upgraded a V1.0 machine to V2.0 (Unless you bought it after a certain date...You know that routine).

[tedluk]

Atterion- With all due respect, I think you are confusing the version 2.0 operating system with the MW software. Nowhere can I find anything that says the MW software is included.

From Samash.com:

"What's New In OS 2?
Just when you thought it couldn't get any better, it does. OS Version 2.0 for the Korg Karma opens up a whole new level of interactivity and control for this remarkable music workstation. Offering a creative and inspiring platform from which to launch the performer or composer's musical ideas, the Karma has revolutionized the music making process for thousands of musicians since it's release in early 2001.

Since then, Korg has been busy working to keep up with a growing list of features that Karma owners have requested, as well as enhancing a number of existing features. The result of all this effort is the new operating system for the Karma Music Workstation, Version 2.0. This upgrade will be available in May of 2002 as a free of download to all Karma owners and users. This operating system upgrade is timed to coincide with the release of KARMA MW, a computer software -program (Mac/Windows) that allows in depth access to all of KARMA's creative features. "

It doesn't say that MW is included. The features they're talking about are parts of the OS. The new KARMA's have OS 2.0 installed.

MW is unrelated to the OS. It's a separate program that runs on your computer. As I said in my earlier post, it's owned by Mr. Kay and it has nothing to do with Korg directly.

Ted

[Atterion]

My version 2 Karma CD has the MW software on it.

"KARMA MW is free of charge to users in the USA who purchase a new Karma Music Workstation from January 1, 2002 onward. Previous US owners can buy the software directly from KORG USA for a special price of only $75 (half-off the $150 list price)."

From:
http://www.korg.com/service/press_txt.asp?PRID=95

[Cloneboy Studio]

Get neither. Get a Kurzweil instead.

[tedluk]

Originally Posted by Atterion

My version 2 Karma CD has the MW software on it.

"KARMA MW is free of charge to users in the USA who purchase a new Karma Music Workstation from January 1, 2002 onward. Previous US owners can buy the software directly from KORG USA for a special price of only $75 (half-off the $150 list price)."

From:
http://www.korg.com/service/press_txt.asp?PRID=95

Cool! I didn't find that before! I'm glad that you're right. That adds a tremendous value to the KARMA!

Get neither. Get a Kurzweil instead.

Cloneboy, sometimes you really have no idea what you're talking about. Kurzweil offers nothing remotely approaching what the KARMA can do. Knowing what I know of you, I'm sure you figure anything Kurzweil makes must be better since it's overpriced.

Ted

[Cloneboy Studio]

Originally Posted by tedluk

Cloneboy, sometimes you really have no idea what you're talking about. Kurzweil offers nothing remotely approaching what the KARMA can do. Knowing what I know of you, I'm sure you figure anything Kurzweil makes must be better since it's overpriced.

I guess it depends whether you want something that writes half the music for you and sounds mediocre, or something you have to play that sounds excellent.

Actually I've owned over 30 synths including keyboards made by Korg, Roland, Sequential Circuits, Oberheim, Kurzweil, Novation, FutureRetro, and so forth. I've played the MOTIF and my friend owns a Karma... I wasn't impressed by them. I owned a Kurzweil K2000 for years and as far as sampler/synth keyboards go I think that Kurzweil has the right features and sounds that stand above the crowd... then again I like programming synths and the VAST system offers many options unavailable on other keyboards.

[Atterion]

No problem tedluk.

And as for the Cloneboy's "Kurzweil Fetish", I'll say this: Yeah, Kurzweil makes nice equipment, but you will find nothing That says "Kurzweil" on it in the $1000-$1500 price range that bsr2002 is obviously looking at. Don't even think of trying to argue that point. You know better, and everyone here knows better.


Yes, the Karma has the ability to create weird and random phrases to be tweaked in realtime. But, it also acts as a straight up synth, with a pretty extensive sound sculpting architecture. The Karma GE's (although capable of self-music making), can act as sound sculpting tools as well (THINK: Really complex, Realtime controllable LFO type processors, etc.). The self music making functions, although often used straight up by some, are often used purely as an inspirational tool, to develop ideas. So, you see, it's function is in the user's hand.

The Karma is what it is, it is not a Sampler. If you like Sampling great!!! The Kurzweil does just that, and very well too (I'd personally take a Triton Studio myself, but everyone has an opinion, right?).
But sound wise, the KARMA is no slouch (especially with the MOSS Physical Modelling Board installed-about $500, but worth it). Personally, I have found that trying to achieve certain sounds with a Kurzweil (K2500S) is often much harder then with the Korg AI, AI2, HI, or MOSS synthesis architectures (Ever heard that more is not necessarily better).

OK, I'm done now I feel better.

[Atterion]

Sorry,
You will find Kurzweils for $1000-$1500.
What I mean't was, you will find nothing that says "Kurzweil" on it in the $1000-$1500 price range, that has the range of features of either the Triton LE or the KARMA. Unless you buy used!!! And you can still pick-up both of those Korgs used cheaper than a Kurzweil.

Again, I do like Kurzweil, as long as someone else is flipping the tab for it (Ever seen that Sweetwater Edition, it is pretty freakin' SWEET, but for $20,000?!?! YIKES!!!).

[Cloneboy Studio]

Give me a fully expanded Kurzweil K2000... that's easily under 1000 bucks. And it is STILL super powerful. The only thing on it that isn't great are the effects...

[punkin]

I second the Triton...got it...love it.