The final mixdowns are lifeless

[thebits]

First, thanks to all of you on this board. I've had Cool Edit for several months, and all of you board members have been a great help.

I have encountered a problem when I save my mixdowns.

I've read over the previous posts and none seem to answer my question. I have set up a GREAT mix, using different mics (for drums, bass, guitar), and recording at the proper levels (32 bit, no clipping, not too low, etc.) The recorded product has depth and sounds great. I mix down the files (Edit-Mix Down to File). The mixdown (on the computer) sounds incredible through headphones, monitors, stereo speakers. **So then I save it to a file and it loses all life.**

I've used the parametric EQ, burned countless CDs. and I can't figure out what the problem is. When I record a file in Windows Sound Recorder and burn it to a CD, it sounds right. But for some reason, when I burn a file that has been mixed down in CoolEdit it sounds faint, lower in volume, and like all depth has been sucked out of it.

I just don't get it. The mixdown sounds great. It's perfectly EQed, etc. I'm experienced enough to check recording levels, the computer, the intial mix, all that stuff. What could be happening?

[dobro]

When you do the mixdown, are you clicking Edit>Mixdown To File>All Waves, or are you clicking Edit>Mixdown To File>All Waves (Mono)?

[dobro]

Next question: when you dither everything down to CD quality at the end, what do you enable when you click Edit>Convert Sample Type? Is stereo enabled, or mono?

[thebits]

Okay, for the first question, I don't do mono.

I have never used Convert Sample Type so that may be my problem. Basically, the process I take is
-get a good mix
-record my tracks
-get the balance I want
-save it to a file
-burn it and hear a lifeless mix

I really appreciate any insight you could give on how to correct my process. Thanks for your help, Dobro.

Originally Posted by dobro

Next question: when you dither everything down to CD quality at the end, what do you enable when you click Edit>Convert Sample Type? Is stereo enabled, or mono?

[thebits]

Okay, I looked this up on the forum:

"The rule of thumb seems to be to do everything at the highest res possible, and then as a final step, dither down to 16-bit for burning to CD. Sound Forge does it all at 16-bit, yes, but that's one big way in which Cool Edit is superior to SF. "

First, before I begin recording, do I need to de-select anything involving dither? Or is it off until mix down.

Second, what process do I want to take after I'm done with my tracks?

Thanks much.

[dobro]

Basically, I think you're doing it right. My guess is your problem is this: you're getting a decent mix on your monitors, but that it doesn't translate well through other sound systems. When you burn your mix to CD, what do you then play the CD on?

"First, before I begin recording, do I need to de-select anything involving dither? Or is it off until mix down."

No, don't worry about dither until you choose to carry it out as the very last step before saving the final mixdown. Until then, just do everything at the highest resolution your soundcard can handle - that's 24-bit for a lot of people (32-bit floating point).

"Second, what process do I want to take after I'm done with my tracks?"

You want to listen to them together in the mix, and use levels, panning, EQ and compression and effects to do two things: make each track clearly heard (good separation) and make each track sound good in the context of the whole mix. If you can do that both on your monitors and on any other sound system you play the mix on, you've succeeded.

[thebits]

Okay, thanks for the help. I have been leaving out the dithering, so I will do that, and do my best to get a good balance.

One final question, I PROMISE (I hope!). Once I'm finished recording and mixing, what's the best way to mix down all my tracks to a .wav file I can burn to a CD? It seems like there are several different ways to save files, and I was wondering if any particular way makes a difference. Does Batch File Convert do this? Or do I want to do something else once I have a good mix down?

Thanks again for your help. Hopefullly I'll be progressed enough to answer questions on this board one day, but one step at a time!!!

[thebits]

[QUOTE=dobro]Basically, I think you're doing it right. My guess is your problem is this: you're getting a decent mix on your monitors, but that it doesn't translate well through other sound systems. When you burn your mix to CD, what do you then play the CD on?

Usually, after it's burned to a CD, we (my drummer and I) pop it into her home stereo. Then we listen to it in my car stereo. (VW bug, new Alpine stereo, factory speakers-- nothing too fancy)

This is all a learning process. For years I've used an old Fostex 8 track reel-to-reel to some great results, but no matter how I love analog, I'm ready to dive in to digital.

[laptoppop]

OK, so the next logical question is - how does the mix sound when you play back the CD on the computer you mixed it down on? Does the CD sound the same as the mix? I wouldn't be suprised if it *did*, and you find you need to adjust your EQ, etc. to allow your mix to translate better to a range of systems. This is not an easy task -- its one of the big things that mastering engineers (as opposed to mixing engineers) specialize in.

-lee-

[thebits]

It seems to sound lifeless everywhere, including the computer (MusicMatch Jukebox, sound recorder--yes, I've checked the EQ on my computer). Is there a particular EQ I should mess with on the final mix or are you a mastering engineer in search of work??!? I'm poor, sorry.

I honestly think it's the dithering. I've been working in 32 bit, and I have burned it to CD at 32 bit. I don't know if that is affecting the depth/quality/loudness of the CD or not, but I'll give it a shot. There is certainly a huge difference in the quality of my final mix (which is balanced and good) and the .wav file that comes out on my CD player.

[dobro]

"There is certainly a huge difference in the quality of my final mix (which is balanced and good) and the .wav file that comes out on my CD player."

All that says is that the mix sounds good on one sound system, but not another.

[Change of POETS]

Originally Posted by dobro

"There is certainly a huge difference in the quality of my final mix (which is balanced and good) and the .wav file that comes out on my CD player."

All that says is that the mix sounds good on one sound system, but not another.

You aren't paying attention.

He already said it sounds awful on the same computer after burning it to CD. That in and of itself says there is a problem in his burn process, or in the mixdown or File Export process.

I record in 24 bit, and export at 16 bit PCM wave. I burn CD's at 16 bit, and they sound exactly the same on my car stereo as they do on my PC.

It's not his mixing or EQing that's the problem, it's a software issue.

[dobro]

"You aren't paying attention."

Gee, how direct.

"He already said it sounds awful on the same computer after burning it to CD."

Where did he say that he played the burned CD on the computer?

But he did say this: "I've been working in 32 bit, and I have burned it to CD at 32 bit."

If that's what's been happening, then I'm surprised it plays at all.

[Change of POETS]

Originally Posted by dobro

"You aren't paying attention."

Gee, how direct.

"He already said it sounds awful on the same computer after burning it to CD."

Where did he say that he played the burned CD on the computer?

But he did say this: "I've been working in 32 bit, and I have burned it to CD at 32 bit."

If that's what's been happening, then I'm surprised it plays at all.

I didn't mean to offend. Just being honest.

He said it here:

Originally posted by thebits
It seems to sound lifeless everywhere, including the computer (MusicMatch Jukebox, sound recorder--yes, I've checked the EQ on my computer).

Maybe I'm wrong, but I assumed that meant he played the CD on the computer after his other areas failed him.

And you're right... I didn't even think one could burn a 32 bit CD.... as I thought 32 bit was "virtual" and only used as a float mechanism for 24 bit recording. There isn't any true 32 bit recording yet, is there?

[lpdeluxe]

You might try a "mastering" program. I just recorded a bunch of acoustic songs (guitar, fiddle, vocal) in the Austin TX area and brought them back to work up. While the mixes weren't terrible, they didn't sparkle. While I can (and soon will) experiment and find the combination that I need to bring them back from the dead, as an adhoc measure I ran them through my software BBE Sonic Maximizer and then through T-Racks, just to get a listenable preliminary mix in the mail (the clients are a couple of hundred miles from here). It ain't perfect, but they will be able to hear what they have done without being distracted by the want of sheen, so to speak. For your purposes this might be the ticket.

I hope this helps.

[Rusty K]

Another thought...

If you have been burning 32bit float then your CD burning software is converting automatically right otherwise it wouldn't play at all. The culprit might be the auto conversions. I was making a "coaster" one day when I found out that Nero does this.

Rusty K

[sicvita]

hmm, how many tracks are you working with? when I mix down and burn a song that has say 4 tracks, I get a more life-like sound than when I'm mixing down say 15 tracks. I've worked with 20 track pieces, and at that amount, you loose a lot of depth without tinkering with things, things get kind of pingy and what not, but a lil' thing that I'm doing now is working with pre-mixing secondary track,s ones that are not as important (ambient sounds, synth, things I just added for bg tonality or texture), into independent mixdowns then replaceing them in the project, and re balancing everything; sounds slightly better to me, but that just might be in my head.

[LRosario]

Definitely might want to check your mix down settings.

32-bit float is great, but its ultimately going to end up as 16-bit. You're going to lose alot of quality.

Cool Edit seems to have a reputation for weak mixdowns. I can't say I've ever heard a "Great" mix that came from Cool Edit.

[Rusty K]

LRosario,

Maybe you should hang out with some better engineers. Cool Edit has nothing to do with the quality of the mix. The engineer supplies the "quality".
So why are you "slumming around" in this Forum?

Rusty K

[dobro]

"Cool Edit seems to have a reputation for weak mixdowns. I can't say I've ever heard a "Great" mix that came from Cool Edit."

Rubbish. I've never heard of the so-called 'reputation' you cite from anyone but you. And if you haven't heard any great mixes from Cool Edit, then that just means you haven't heard good work done on Cool Edit - you ought to get out more.

Sound editors are pretty much of a piece - this one or that one has this or that feature that the others lack, but they all do the job to the level that the person using it can attain to. A pro could easily produce a pro mix with Cool. Homers produce home mixes. Simple.

[G3ekRock]

Maybe you've thought of / checked this, but I'm thinking perhaps you've got some settings going on in Windows with your sound that help the mix, but don't translate to a final burn.

ie: in your audio setup in windows you've got the bass and treble up and so when you listen to the mix on your computer speakers / monitors / headphones FROM the computer it's sounding good, but when you burn down to cd and listen in the car / home stereo / etc. there's not that added dimension from the Windows sound so it sounds more lifeless.

just a thought.

I get some damned good, bright, crisp sound on my burns from Cool Edit / Adobe Audition. I burn at 4x (the slowest my 48x burner will go) and I compress the mixdown a little. Sounds great in the car etc.