Another newbie compressor question!!

[Sage97]

I have the RNC and am wondering if I need it for the acoustic guitar. I have several Taylors and use the SP C4s through the RNC and RNP into an AKAI DAW. Mild to moderate strumming to fingpericking.

Can anyone recommend their favorite or best setting in the Super Nice mode to get the most natural guitar sound? What about for vocals? (The AT4040 is on its way). Is there a "one size fits all setting" so I can just leave it in one position all the time? If not, what are the key points to listen to?

I know this is the not the newbie section and I apologize for all the stupid questions.

Thanks in advance.

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by Sage97

Is there a "one size fits all setting" so I can just leave it in one position all the time? If not, what are the key points to listen to?

Well . . . you don't want the attack time to be so short so as to kill the attack. And you don't want it to be too long so as to make the compression seem too obvious or peaky. Or maybe you do.

As far as release time goes, you don't want it to be so short as to make it pump and breath too much and you don't want it to be too long so it isn't able to keep up with faster strumming, etc. There comes a point where the release is so fast and so well timed to the tempo of the music that you can't hear it working; it just makes things sound more upfront. On the other extreme, you can also set it so long that you don't notice it as much (just sounds more controled, dynamically). And in between those extremes you'll find a zone where you can really hear it working in a more obvious way.

Very generally speaking, though, you should probably start with a relatively short attack time . . . and a somewhat longer release. Try a faster release for music that is of a very fast, aggressive, percussive-type nature . . . or if you want something to sit right up front in a mix.

As for ratio, I'd start out with 3:1 . . . move up to 4:1 if it's not enough, and move down to 2:1 if you think it's too much.

[EleKtriKaz]

Originally Posted by chessrock

Well . . . you don't want the attack time to be so short so as to kill the attack. And you don't want it to be too long so as to make the compression seem too obvious. Or maybe you do.

As far as release time, you don't want it to be so short as to make it pump and breath too much and you don't want it to be too long so it isn't able to keep up with faster strumming, etc. There comes a point where the release is so fast and so well timed to the tempo of the music that you can't hear it working; it just makes things sound more upfront. On the other extreme, you can also set it so long that you don't notice it as much (just sounds more controled, dynamically). And in between those extremes you'll find a zone where you can really hear it working in a more obvious way.

Very generally speaking, though, you should probably start with a relatively short attack time . . . and a somewhat longer release. Try a faster release for music that is of a very fast, aggressive, percussive-type nature . . . or if you want something to sit right up front in a mix.

As for ratio, I'd start out with 3:1 . . . move up to 4:1 if it's not enough, and move down to 2:1 if you think it's too much.

Very good tips right there.

It's very easy to mess up a nice acoustic guitar sound with over-compression. Compression abuse tends to show up glaringly on acoustic guitars, but if you use the tips above as your guidelines, you should be able to find something that suits the song.

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by EleKtriKaz

Compression abuse tends to show up glaringly on acoustic guitars

Absolutely. That and piano.

If you're just "learning" compression, then accoustic guitar is a very good thing to practice with. You can generally hear it's effects very obviously.

Over time, I've kind of gone away from it on accoustic . . . and instead just use a limiter to catch the peaks. Maybe use a multiband comp on the lows and low-mids.

[acorec]

Originally Posted by Sage97

I have the RNC and am wondering if I need it for the acoustic guitar. I have several Taylors and use the SP C4s through the RNC and RNP into an AKAI DAW. Mild to moderate strumming to fingpericking.

Can anyone recommend their favorite or best setting in the Super Nice mode to get the most natural guitar sound? What about for vocals? (The AT4040 is on its way). Is there a "one size fits all setting" so I can just leave it in one position all the time? If not, what are the key points to listen to?

I know this is the not the newbie section and I apologize for all the stupid questions.

Thanks in advance.

Acoustic guitars benefit most from limiting only. Any form of comression tends to make the guitar sound more clean-electric. Peak limiting is the approach I use unless it is in a dense mix or the sound I was looking for.

[Sage97]

Chessrock,

Seems like you've got tons of great suggestions except for one thing. You're talking Greek. He-he. Not your fault at all. Completely mine. I confess I have no idea what attack and release, etc are about. I read the RNC manual but still. I don't even know what a compressor is for. I just bought one thinking I need it for recording.

I definitely will need to read up and learn first. I guess I was hoping there was an easier way.

However, in reading everyone's posts, I'm convinced that all I need is the limiting capabilities of the RNC. I'm tempted to ask another stupid question but I will assume that there is still no qucik fix to limiting. I still need to do homework and learn, correct?

[deharmonic]

attack - how fast the compressor kicks in, generally (not terribly accurate for advanced compression)
release - how long it compresses

these are measured in time, so think about it. do you want the compressor kicking in the first split second that the signal goes above the threshold? or do you want it to kick in after the signal goes above the threshold for a longer period of time.

i cascade compressors a bit, so I like to have one that levels the signal a bit and one that catches out of control peaks...

btw - i think the RNC is a good compressor on which to learn, since you have all of the basic controls:
threshold
ratio
attack
release
gain

plus sidechain insert

i need to get like 5 more RNC's...

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by Sage97

I don't even know what a compressor is for. I just bought one thinking I need it for recording. I definitely will need to read up and learn first.

That's a good idea.

[mrface2112]

i'm not a big fan of the RNC on acoustic guitars (while it's quite nice on some other things). in fact, like others above, i'm not a big fan of compression on acoustic guitars in general.

i do, however, run all my acoustic tracks through a symmetrix 425. it's a stereo comp/limiter, and i use it only for peak limiting, if even that--sometimes i don't even engage the limiter--i just really like the sonic character it imparts to the tracks. for some reason, that thing just sounds really good on acoustic guitar--my guess is that it's similar to a dbx 166/266, which were originally intended as guitar rig compressors.

recently i picked up a symmetrix cl-150, and i LOVE it on electric guitar.....but i put it in the guitar's signal chain rather than after the mic.

like chessrock said, it's REAL easy to hear compression on acoustic guitars. once you learn what to listen for, compression becomes much less of a strange animal to deal with.....and the RNC is a fantastic "first" compressor.


cheers,
wade

[Sage97]

Talked to Mark from FMR and he gave me some real great advice on "playing around" with the RNC. Don't know if my gear will allow this but I'll sure try when I get home.

He instructed me to record some uncompressed tracks then try to route the signals to the monitors through the RNC. I think my AKAI DPS 16 has this capability but not 100% sure. Anyways, if I can pull it off, I can then play around with the controls on the RNC and actually see (or maybe I should say hear) exactly what it does. Deharmonic's descriptions on attack and release seem great but actually hearing the effects would be something else.

Like everyone else, he too does not usually compress acoustic guitars when cutting a track but often uses the RNC as a limiter somewhere in the mix.

Everyone's advice is highly appreciated. Wish me luck.

[Sage97]

I'm a freaking idiot. I'll never get it. Can't believe I have a Master's degree and still can't figure this out!

Anybody wanna buy my RNC? I'm focusing on my music and leave the compression to the pros.

[junplugged]

I've been trying for years on this also and I only make a little bit of headway like once a week or so. But that little bit adds up a lot and each of those little bits can really make a huge difference in the final sounds.

I've been experimenting w/ compression on Acoustic guitar for about 2 weeks. I have yet to find a setting that I like. I've gone from low input to it, to medium to higher level, and I've tried many, many combinations of Peak/RMS, attack/delay times, threshholds and hard/soft knees. ALL of it to me, sounds like an effect, not a help to the dynamics of acoustic guitar. But, I play hard and stupid, I'm not using the guitar like a sophisticated fingerstyle master. So for me, some limiting is about it, even then, I like to keep the natural dynamics on the track.

The other consideration is the track. If you are going to mix the guitar in w/ a load of other tracks, you may need to compress it and get it to a high enough level, but on the other hand, if it's a solo sound, you really don't need, or I should say, I really don't need to compress my solo acoustic sound, for me, b/c I like to hear it very full and it's not competing in the sonic landscape w/ anything but my vocal track.

Currently, I don't care if my dynamics are wide - from low to higher, I like it that way so I'm not even bothering to compress, but I did learn about compression and I've been reading a book that has like, 25 producer/engineers and a lot of them say to use compression sparingly, or was that eq? Ha! WTF, man it's like 1:30 a.m. and I just got back from a concert. Listen carefully, use your ears when you're not tired, then stop, give it a rest, try it again, it's your project do what you like to hear, there's no rules esp, in a home studio, it's your studio b/c you want to do what you want. Don't sell it tho, it's a good one, from what I read around here.

[Richard Monroe]

I guess I'm really old fashioned. I don't compress acoustic guitar at all unless the player sucks. If I find I need a limiter, I'd rather move the mic. If the dynamic range is too wide, I learn how to play it so it isn't, or find someone who can. I believe that a clean track of an acoustic played well is better than one that's compressed. First, headroom is a good thing. If I feel like I need a limiter, maybe I need to limit myself, 'cause I'm hitting that axe too hard. You know, the world got along just fine for years without compression. Then somebody decided that a machine could compensate for poor technique. Yup, it's a timesaver if your source is less than ideal. I usually think of compression as something that's a necessary evil, used when it's not practical to retrack a take. The same could be said of EQ. As the quality of dynamic processors, tone shaping, and FX has gradually improved, the attention of commercial music has shifted more and more to post-production, comp'ing tracks, doubling tracks, and the increasing use of triggered samples, etc. etc.
As that has happened, the quality of recorded music in general has gotten worse, not better, and the skill required to be a professional musician has become more and more feeble with every passing year. Oh no, they didn't compress Benny Goodman! Whatever will we do?-Richie