Copyright Questions

[Druss]

I need to know how to this right, I am going to have two songs copyrighted words and music. Do I send a cd, words on a sheet of paper along with the Form? Also I have a coauthor we want it to be 50/50, do we both sign where the application asks for a signature? If we send the songs in together will it cost $30.00 or $60.00?

[systmovadown]

Originally Posted by Druss

I need to know how to this right, I am going to have two songs copyrighted words and music. Do I send a cd, words on a sheet of paper along with the Form? Also I have a coauthor we want it to be 50/50, do we both sign where the application asks for a signature? If we send the songs in together will it cost $30.00 or $60.00?

why not do it the free way...
put ur cd and words and lyrics and all that...sign it...put the date on...mail it to a friend....and tell the friend not to open it
but keep it in a nice place....
learned that from a music teacher

[Druss]

This is not somthing I want to take a chance on. It's worth what ever I have to pay to protect it.

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by systmovadown

why not do it the free way...
put ur cd and words and lyrics and all that...sign it...put the date on...mail it to a friend....and tell the friend not to open it
but keep it in a nice place....
learned that from a music teacher

that doesn't work. won't hold up in court. you need the government seal of approval.

[Cheeky Monkey]

Copyright is automatic upon creation of the work. However, proving it is another thing, and he with the deepest pockets could win. The "poor man's copyright" (mailing the work to yourself via registered mail and not opening it unless having to demonstrate proof of copyright in court) could provide some level of proof, but most (including lawyers) suggest that this is not adequate.

The only absolute protection is registering the song with the Library of Congress Copyright Office. Last I checked, it was US$30 per song. You can copyright a 'compilation' of songs for the same fee (any number, I believe). This may be the better and more economical route if your intent is not to ultimately be the recording artist representing the song, preferring to shop the song to publishers for other artists to record/release. Then, it must be remembered that upon signing of the publishing contract, the copyright for a particular song will be assigned to the publisher (with negociated 'reversion clause', usually 2 yr. max., in case the song doesn't get cut). It's the publisher who then 'again' registers the copyright under his/her pubco's. name.

Here's the link to the LOC Copyright Office form download web-site: http://www.copyright.gov/forms/. I believe you need either Form PA (or the short version), or Form SR depending on your situation. Of course, all the copyright info you need is available via the LOC Copyright Office. It may even discuss the "poor man's copyright" somewhere there.

Good luck!

[Druss]

We are not planning on selling the songs we want to copyright them then send them off and see what happens.
I have Form SR printed out I'm just not sure how to fill it out with a coauthor. The form has a place for Author A,B and C but on the back under Certification* it says " I,the undersigned, hereby certify that I am the" then it says check only one " Author/ other copyright claimant/ owner of exclusive right(s)/ authorized agent of ______________.
I just don't understand how to fill it out with a coauthor.

[Cheeky Monkey]

Originally Posted by Druss

We are not planning on selling the songs we want to copyright them then send them off and see what happens.
I have Form SR printed out I'm just not sure how to fill it out with a coauthor. The form has a place for Author A,B and C but on the back under Certification* it says " I,the undersigned, hereby certify that I am the" then it says check only one " Author/ other copyright claimant/ owner of exclusive right(s)/ authorized agent of ______________.
I just don't understand how to fill it out with a coauthor.

One should never "sell" a song. When it comes to a publishing deal, it's more of a licensing arrangement. Regarding the LOC Copyright Office Form, I'm pretty sure that for your purposes you should be using Form PA (or short version of it) and not Form SR (if you use the wrong form, the Copyright Office will return it to you unprocessed, with a time limit for re-submission using the correct form -- this substantially delays the process. This happened to me the first time I submitted when I incorrectly used form SR. Your situation is probably similar to mine.

As for "Certification", if you're one of the authors, you just check-off "Author" and you can sign it (other authors don't have to -- they're already identified in section 2 (Name of Author/Nature of Authorship) and section 4 (Copyright Claimants).

BTW, yes, you send a cd and words on a sheet of paper along with the Form. As to a coauthor 50/50, no, you both do not need to sign where the application asks for a signature. The 50/50 split between you and the coauthor has nothing to do with the copyright form submission. This is a separate writer's agreement that you should definitely have in writing.

[systmovadown]

is it 30 dollars a song or 30 dollars for each cd?

[Cheeky Monkey]

Originally Posted by systmovadown

is it 30 dollars a song or 30 dollars for each cd?

Either/or. You can submit one song for $30, or a compilation of any number of songs (CD/cassette), also $30 for the compilation.

[bennychico11]

it's $30 per tangible medium that you want copyrighted. if you plan on copyrighting it as a sound recording in whole....then it $30. This will cover both lyrics AND music at the same time. If you want to copyright the sound recording as a whole and the lyrics as well (say if you wrote the lyrics but someone else did the music)...then that will probably be two separate fees since you are asking for two separate copyrights.

As far as the poor man's method...it will not work period. If someone does steal your work and you want to take them to court over it you have to have a legal paper that says you got a copyright for it in order to 1) be able to even take it to court 2) hire an attorney 3) make the person pay you for damages and 4) make him pay your attorney fees. Just think of it...we live in a country were you have to pay for everything. The government is NOT going to back you up unless you give them money.

[systmovadown]

thanks so much.....
so If i send in a cd with the lyrics and music of 10 songs.....thats 30 dollars?

[bennychico11]

i'm not sure you even have to include the lyrics (unless of course the forms tell you to). Since you will be copyrighting it under the "sound recording" class, I think you just need to send the CD itself. Since that will be copyrighted, that means everything on the CD will be copyrighted automatically....lyrics and music. so if someone steals your lyrics you just have to go to court, play them the song that has your lyrics and you win.

[Druss]

I think i need to use the PA form, but i'm not sure if i need to fill out a seperate form for each song, and then send them both with the cd. The form has title of this work on the first line. Do i put both song titles on the same form or use another form for the other song?
I found this on the loc web site (What is the registration fee?
The current filing fee is $30 per application. Generally, each work requires a separate application. See Circular 4, Copyright Fees. )

[jalbert]

You need the short form PA if you alone wrote the material or the standard PA form if there is more than one author. To have your work(whether a single song or a collection) copyrighted one of these forms is all you need. Whichever one you use you then make a name for the collection of songs being submitted(i.e. John Doe Vol. 1). The fee is $30.00 for as many songs as you want to put into the collection. If you want each individual song listed in the Library of Congress you also need the PA/CON form. On the CON(continuation) form you list all the songs contained in the collection. You don't need to list the songs individually for them to all be copyrighted but I guess if anyone is ever trying to find one of them at the Library of Congress it makes it easier. You don't need to send anything other than an audio recording for both the music and lyrics to be copyrighted.
If you request the forms to be sent to you from the Copyright Office, instead of downloading them, they will also send you a bunch of information on everything you'd ever need to know about copyrighting.
After that just cough up the thirty bucks and get ready to wait for at least six months. And if you're expecting some ornate certificate to frame and hang on your wall don't get too worked up. All they are is copies of the same forms you filled out printed on paper with a seal of the Copyright Office and a registration number stamped on them.

[Druss]

Thanks a lot guys I have one More question. On line eight of the PA form it says "Certification* I, the undersigned, hereby certify that I am the { author, other copyright claimant, owner of exclusive right(s) or authorized agent of________.
Am I suppose to check author or other copyright claimant, There are two names on the front.
Again thanks a lot for the help this is my first time and I dont want to screw it up

[jalbert]

Originally Posted by Druss

On line eight of the PA form it says "Certification* I, the undersigned, hereby certify that I am the { author, other copyright claimant, owner of exclusive right(s) or authorized agent of________.
Am I suppose to check author or other copyright claimant, There are two names on the front.

I think Cheeky already answered this one:

Originally Posted by Cheeky Monkey

.

As for "Certification", if you're one of the authors, you just check-off "Author" and you can sign it (other authors don't have to -- they're already identified in section 2 (Name of Author/Nature of Authorship) and section 4 (Copyright Claimants).

As to a coauthor 50/50, no, you both do not need to sign where the application asks for a signature. The 50/50 split between you and the coauthor has nothing to do with the copyright form submission. This is a separate writer's agreement that you should definitely have in writing.

I personally only know of the standard form, I've never actually seen one but this guy seems to know what he's talking about.
He also says to include a sheet with the lyrics written out. I don't think that's necessary but it probably wouldn't hurt.

[Druss]

Yes you are right, I forgot I already asked about that. I believe I understand it now thanks again Cheeky Monkey and jalbert. After I send it off I'll let everyone know how it went maybe I'll be able to help someone else out. THANKS.

[systmovadown]

yah that would help me and a couple of us...thanks