How many people copywrite their music before posting online?

[mindwave_21]

Just wondering what the number was like. If you had one song instead of an album, would you still throw down the $30 for the C? Anybody actually get a song stolen from them?
I'm thinking of posting maybe 3 songs on purevolume and then garageband but I want to see what people say.

[Elusion]

whenever i do a cd i just mail myself a copy of it, then i put it somewhere safe to never be touched. Cheap but works. And then ill post.

Paul

[Garry Sharp]

I never bother. By the way it's spelt copyright.

[jimistone]

Actually a song is copyrighted as soon as it is written. I believe what you are talking about is registering that copyright with the Library of congress. The "mail it to myself" thing is an old wives tale, if you wrote a song and someone stole it, registered a copyright under their name, and made it a "hit".....the "mailed it to myself" thing would be weak in court, when up against a registered copyright.

Actually, posting it here would be better than mailing it to yourself. (documented public accessto the song, with a date verified before the copyright was registered by the "thief" is better than mailing it to yourself. Remember, the only time any of this would come up is if your copyright of the song was challenged.

The way I usually register copyrights with the library of congress is to do several songs at once....same price as one song if you registor it as one complete work.

[Jimmie]

mail it to yourself works.

as long as the post office stamped the actual seal.. and that seal hasnt been broken ...

I talked with my lawyer about it.

[Toonsmith]

I always copyright my stuff before I post 'em. Registering it with the Library of Congress is the only safe guard for your material. I'm not sure who, maybe somebody could tell you here, but someone posted some links to where the 'letter to yourself' thing did'nt hold up in court. There were like four or five examples that were shown on the link page. And since I'm to lazy to look for it....

[mindwave_21]

Thanks for all your responses guys! Sorry about the copyright spelling. I knew I couldn't make it through the night without a sp error . BTW, if mailing it to yourself doesn't work, then how would posting it here work? The whole reason to copyright before you post is so that no one uploading or listening to the songs can jack 'em. Also, I don't know how viable a BBS post would be in court anyway, but I'm blowing things way out of proportion...just want to keep what is mine

[Thorguitarist]

What does writing include? Does That infer I write it note for note on paper, put the lyrics on, and have the recording? As soon as I record I put it on the computer, and then on cornerband. Which is a good exception to Purevolume. Cornerband (the free account version) let's you upload as many as you want but only stream/download 3 at a time ... upgrading the account is $45 a month? I think. Plus there is a whole rating system and what not very cool. Sorry for getting off topic.

[lronhoover]

From what I understand, when you sell or give out a recorded copy of your music. It is covered, but if someone else uses it you can't sue until you have the copyright. You can collect on what they made from it but you can't sue for damages. But it's a lot easier to protect with the copyright.

[Jimmie]

Registered mail does work, I have been down that road. Legally. At least here in Canada.


Similar to a contract that was never signed, just a hand shake.

that stands too ..

Really what are the odds of someone stealing your song and making a go of it?? Really slim.

[paddyponchero]

Hey,

I never thought much of it till a local songwriter here in Ireland mentioned that someone had recorded one of his songs and sold 10,000 copies of it in new york. Basically this guy is one of irelands best living songwriters and writes some songs in our native language in conjuncion with an excellent Irish poet Louis de Paor.

The guys in new york translated 'sráid an chloig' to english 'clock street' and recorded it. Now he's signed to EMI and its not even worth their while pursuing it. Incidentally EMI took one of irelands finest acoustic musicians and filled the album with REALLY dodgy midi stuff (

Check him out: http://www.johnspillane.ie

Paddy

[Gidge]

"I’ve heard about a “poor man’s copyright.” What is it?
The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a “poor man’s copyright.” There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration"

quoted from:
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html

[Jagular]

Originally Posted by Jimmie

mail it to yourself works.

as long as the post office stamped the actual seal.. and that seal hasnt been broken ...

I talked with my lawyer about it.

You need to talk to a different lawyer. Any competent music attorney will tell you the opposite. Sorry. I see you are from Canada. Maybe things work differently up there. That doesn't hold up down here. The only way to truly protect yourself in case it is necessary is to register your copyright.

As an answer to the original question. No. I don't bother to register them. Neither do the VAST majority of pro writers in Nashville. Neither do publishers until the song is actually cut. Song theft is rare and EXTREMELY rare in a case that would make anyone any substantial $. So if Gary Burr & Jeffery Steele aren’t registering their work, then I’m probably pretty safe . Most of their songs are ultimately more worth stealing than any of mine .

Still it’s not a bad idea to do it. I just spend my limited resources in other ways to advance my songwriting career…well…it’s not quite a career yet…I’m still working on that one

[Jagular]

Originally Posted by paddyponchero

Hey,

I never thought much of it till a local songwriter here in Ireland mentioned that someone had recorded one of his songs and sold 10,000 copies of it in new york. Basically this guy is one of irelands best living songwriters and writes some songs in our native language in conjuncion with an excellent Irish poet Louis de Paor.

The guys in new york translated 'sráid an chloig' to english 'clock street' and recorded it. Now he's signed to EMI and its not even worth their while pursuing it. Incidentally EMI took one of irelands finest acoustic musicians and filled the album with REALLY dodgy midi stuff (

Check him out: http://www.johnspillane.ie

Paddy

10000 x $0.085 = $850. Just over small claims type bucks. Nope. Probably not even worth him going after on his own. Registering the copyright would not change this fact

[distortedrumble]

its only $35 bucks to register with the library of congress...i dont see why more people dont do it. i thought about that whole thing of mailing it to myself and i never did it. but even if i did. if you burn cds of your stuff. theres a time code on the tracks so the cd songs have the date they were burned to cd and that combined with the sealed mail document should have a standing somehow I'd think. what we need is a couple of entertainment lawyers to come on here and clear up that myth.

[Jagular]

I'm not an attorney, but I can tell you that there are damages that you can't sue for in Federal Court if you don't register your copyright. You can only get full protection with the registration.

If I get a chance, I'll see if I can dig up some old threads at another site where the subject was beat to death and there was commented on by a Music Attorney who I know.

[distortedrumble]

one lawyer is fuel for the fire....2 lawyers who disagree on viewpoints is a huge can of worms. I'd like to hear from atleast 3 lawyers on this subject.

[Gidge]

"Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. "

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html

[xfinsterx]

Originally Posted by Jimmie

mail it to yourself works.

as long as the post office stamped the actual seal.. and that seal hasnt been broken ...

I talked with my lawyer about it.

i second this one, if the song is that important to me/us, we will do the "poor mans copyright"
just be sure you send it as 'registered mail', and dont open it.

[Jagular]

Geez guys!!! How many times does Gidge have to post that link? Have y'all read it? . From a little deeper in the site. As you can see, there are certain damages that you CAN"T get unless you register the copyright.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#cr

COPYRIGHT REGISTRATION
In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copyright. However, registration is not a condition of copyright protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make registration. Among these advantages are the following:

Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.

Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U. S. origin.

If made before or within 5 years of publication, registration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.

If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.

Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for protection against the importation of infringing copies. For additional information, request Publication No. 563 "How to Protect Your Intellectual Property Right," from: U.S. Customs Service, P.O. Box 7404, Washington, D.C. 20044. See the U.S. Customs Service Website at www.customs.gov for online publications.

Registration may be made at any time within the life of the copyright. Unlike the law before 1978, when a work has been registered in unpublished form, it is not necessary to make another registration when the work becomes published, although the copyright owner may register the published edition, if desired.

[Jagular]

A little more reading on the subject. Please pay attention to what Musicrowlawyer says in this thread. Especially at the end. It's left a little hanging, but he cites chapter and verse on the subject toward the end. Also, there are a couple good links in the thread that other folks posted too...

http://www.musesmuse.com/forums/inde...opic=3156&st=0

Here is the attorney's site...

http://musicrowlawyer.com/

And you can read what he has there about copyrights as well.

http://musicrowlawyer.com/articles

What I get from this is that by the letter of the law, the only way you can bring suit and collect full damages is to register the copyright. The question left hanging in the end is that there may be some wiggle room around that. But still, it sounds like it might be a crap shoot at that point.

Happy reading...

[JaQsonA1]

Technically everyone is right!

Here's a section from the book All You Need to Know About the Music Business. By Donald S. Passman:"Under United States Copyright Law, as soon as you make a tangible copy of something, you have a copyright. Tanigle simply means something you can touch. If the work is a musical composition, for example it can be written down, or just sung or played into a tape recorder. Once this tanigle copy exist, you have all the copyright you need.

Many people think you have to register in Washington to get a copyright. Not true. There are some important rights you get form registering, but securing a copyright isnt one of them.

What are all these rights you receive from copyrights?

Reproduce the work
Distribute copies of the work
Perform the work "publicly"
Make a derivative work
To display the work publicly

Everyone may want to get a copy of this book. The one I have is actually an older version but Im sure it will help everyone in one way or the other!

[Gidge]

Originally Posted by JaQsonA1

Once this tanigle copy exist, you have all the copyright you need.

if someone steals your song and makes millions of $$$ on it, and you want to bring them to court, is it still all the copyright you need?....

[JaQsonA1]

Yep! This is from a guy that has been practicing music law for over 20 yrs and has represented tons of record companies, music publishers, managers etc. Fully read the post and it will answer your question in detail......

[Kelby]

The "poor man's copyright" may not be a substitute for full registration, but that does not mean that it is useless.

In copyright disputes, one of the core issues is often who created the song first. Being able to point to reliably dated evidence can be important in such a dispute. Postage dates can be such evidence.

Bottom line, if you aren't going to formally register, at least do something to ensure you have solid proof of when you created the song. Mail it to yourself, post it on a public web site, or something.