Overhead, Kick, Snare mic.. My toms are suffering!

[thispleasesme]

Hey everyone... I've got a quick question to run by everyone...

I've read some threads that are aimed towards helping make the toms in tracks sound better, but I haven't found one yet that was specific to 4 mic setup, or any setup not involving the close micing of the toms.

I use the recorderman (also called the modified spaced pair) technique to record my DW custom kit (4 toms, snare, kick) along with a kick mic and a snare mic.. My signal chain for any concerned is as follows...

Overheads - Oktava Mk-012 pair -> Focusrite TwinTrak Pro pre -> MOTU 896HD

Snare - Shure SM57 -> Mackie VLZ Pro Pre
Kick - AKG D112 -> Mackie VLZ Pro Pre

What I'm having trouble with is getting those darn toms to sound decent along side the cymbals. I've tried compression, EQ, they just aren't that great. They're new heads, properly tuned I assure you, my drummer is crazy about that...

So, how do those of you recording drums without close miced toms manage to make both cymbals and toms sound good through those two mics? Any suggestions?

Thanks a lot...

[xfinsterx]

tell the drummer to play his cymbals softer, and when he hits the toms , beat the hell out of em.

either that or go back and over dub the toms in.

or, screw the over heads, stick one oktava in the middle of toms 1&2
and the other on 3 and 4. youll still probably get some good cymbal bleed.

experiment until you pass out, the only choice you have is to create choices.

peace.

[TamaSabian]

I think that you need to overdub the toms, using the 4 mic technique will not give you great sounding toms if your drummer doesn´t play balanced, I mean, hit cymbals softer and getting the crap out of the toms. I´d say go for the overdub option or experiment with one of the OH pointing between 2nd and 3rd tom.

TS

[rweiss]

Try tuning the drums a lot higher, and put a lot of muffling on them (to get rid of the overtones). It's going to sound like shit, but it might turn out well on the recording...

Give it a shot.

[theletterq]

One of the best techniques I've found for recording cymbals is playing them the "correct" or manufacture recommended way. This involves hitting the bow of say the crash cymbal like you hit a ride...with a quick glancing blow. It seems like a lot of drummers bash the hell out of the edge of the cymbal which is not only a lot louder but can be damgaging to the cymbal itself.

[xfinsterx]

Originally Posted by theletterq

One of the best techniques I've found for recording cymbals is playing them the "correct" or manufacture recommended way. This involves hitting the bow of say the crash cymbal like you hit a ride...with a quick glancing blow. It seems like a lot of drummers bash the hell out of the edge of the cymbal which is not only a lot louder but can be damgaging to the cymbal itself.

exactly. if you can hit the cymbals in this way theyll sound better, they wont be as loud, and bleed wont be such an issue in general.
ive tried to tell certain animal drummers this stuff, and they stare at me like a deer in headlights. lol

[dr.colossus]

Originally Posted by xfinsterx

or, screw the over heads, stick one oktava in the middle of toms 1&2
and the other on 3 and 4. youll still probably get some good cymbal bleed.
.

this is probably the best way to do it giving the drummer the oppertunity to perform most naturally... the performance is the most important thing above all, this is something that tends to be forgotten!!! pardon my ignorance, but are the 012's omni? i'm using ecm8000 omnis about 2-3" above the toms, and and finally getting a picture of my kit with four mics that i am happy with..

[thispleasesme]

Thanks for all the help guys, I'll work on this..

No, the mk012s are cardioids, but you can change the capsule.