how does one become a virtual drummer?

[imotic]

I'm a songwriter with a DAW. I use Cakewalk SONAR, and I just got NI Battery. I want realistic MIDI drum tracks, and I've been using whatever I can find, but when it comes time to make the changes, I don't know how to make my part sound remotely realistic. I consider this to be largely a technique problem. I know how to use the software, but really, I don't know what to do with it. I can think of a rhythm in my head, and I can beat my hands against the desk in roughly the same rhythm, but when it comes to realizing the sound in my head on the computer, I get stuck... and I end up putting the kick on 1 and 3, the snare on 2 and 4, and the ride on the 16ths. Sure, I can mix it up a bit... but my skill leaves a lot to be desired.

A friend of mine with a bit more tracking experience was trying to help me, and was talking to me about "ghost snares" etc... which sound a hell of a lot better than what I was doing previously, but I have no idea where this concept came from. I also have no idea where to put these ghost snares... I really just haven't spent enough time learning it to grasp it, and it's hard to spend time on it by myself.

So I'm trying to figure out how to become a virtual Ringo. There are a few things that go into this. Software helps, of course, so if you've got some suggestions, I'm all ears, but I put this in the Drum forum instead of the MIDI/gear/whatever forum because I want drummers' advice on technique, etc. Any tidbits here or there would be helpful, as well as pointers to online resources and the like would be great. for starters, if anyone could enlighten me on ghost snares, that'd be great but i'm really interested in the whole spectrum.

The style of music that I'm working with is 90s rock-pop.. "adult alternative" or alterna-pop or whatever. there's a heavy piano base, if that makes a difference in the drumming styles. Think Tori Amos/Live/Tonic.

[Hojo]

Ghost snare hits are when the drummer lightly taps the snare. Depending on just how ghostly a ghost note is they can be barely audible in a mix, but they just help to fill out a beat.


hh x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
sd ----xg-g-g--x--g
bd x-x---x---x--x--


Or something like that. Try programming that in, with "x" a normal snare hit and "g" a relatively low-velocity hit. Eighths on the hats.

However lots of poprock drumming isn't much more complicated than what you described. The biggest difference will probably be the samples themselves. Good samples are essential if you want your drums to sound anywhere near decent. Random multisamples help, as does varying the velocity a tad from hit to hit.

What samples are you using at the moment?

Good luck with it. Programming drums is kind of fun when you get the hang of it. Playing the real thing is more fun, even if recorded on my equipment they aren't much to write home about.

[imotic]

i'm using the 2cds of samples that come with battery... they're good samples, i'm just having a hard time realizing what's in my head.

[TripleJ]

You could get a cheap midi keyboard to tap it in.

However I would reccomend simply copying some tabs from tori-amo/live etc and seeing if they fit with the song. You can then change them and you will have a good solid base for the song.

The samples make the drum sound by the way. Like Hojo said try and vary the velocity of each hit slightly to make it sound more realistic.

Other than that - learn drums!

[imotic]

Originally Posted by TripleJ

Other than that - learn drums!

I'm trying to, sans drumkit But there has to be some techniques that apply with or without a kit?

[mikeh]

As has already been indicated, ghost nots are simply soft hits between the snare backbeat to create more motion or feel. As indicated often these notes are less heard then implied.

Depending on the software application you use, you should be able to adjust individual note velocity - in particular if you are using any kind of MIDI application

[The Seifer]

If the only problem you're having is not being able to program, you need to study music theory and drums specifically until you understand everything a drummer does and why.

[imotic]

Originally Posted by The Seifer

If the only problem you're having is not being able to program, you need to study music theory and drums specifically until you understand everything a drummer does and why.

well i've taken theory classes... i'm not exactly sure what you mean. but that's exactly what i'm asking- what do drummers do, and why? i really have no idea where to look, what to look for, etc.- any concrete tips would be absolutely great. even if it's "read this link here", or "read this book", or "listen to what this drummer is doing on this song"... the only option i don't have is "go get a drum set and sit down and play until the neighbors complain".

[The Seifer]

Well I don't know what to tell you, it just may boil down to where you are musically at the moment. I started programming beats and fills the first day I recieved my drum sampler. I had listened to enough music and played with enough drummers to just "get it."

[imotic]

you might be right. i'm pretty good at making a beat with my hands, but after that, i just don't have it yet. i'm pretty decent with a melody, but beats is something i'll have to work at.

[TripleJ]

Practise makes perfect mate, practise makes perfect. Like I said just copy some beats from mxtabs.net from those bands you mentioned and then play around with them.

Theres no special 'secret' of how to make good beats - just listen to the music and learn more theory. If you can't place the notes according to what you hear in your head thats just inexperience with drums.

[crankz1]

Seems to me that maybe you would like to have a more human feel to your MIDI drum tracks.
First .... a good set of samples
Second ..... make them sound as if a human is playing them not some dead on the money robot.
Sure some players will play "in the pocket" ... right on the beat all of the time. If thats what you want then you need to study different players. How they make use of ghost notes and accents. You will accomplish this with different velocities and slight pitch variations.
Some players will either play on top of the beat or slightly behind the beat. Some will do both. This is accomplished by being a little lenient on the quantization of the bass and snare beats. You can even throw in a little "sloppiness" on the ride (be it hi-hat, cymbal or what not). Shift some of those notes ever so slightly ahead of or behind the beat. Again this will take studying to reproduce any certain playing style.

HTH