ATR-60.......advice........

[ausrock]

I have a friend with a sick Tascam ATR-60, in that it's "take up reel" doesn't take up.

Locally, finding a tech for this kind of thing would be like finding rocking horse shit and it would more likely that the machine would have to be taken 160klms to Sydney...........consequently I am hoping someone here may have some advice as to the likely cause of the problem or be able to guide us through a trouble shooting exercise.

If we can get it fixed, it is possible that the machine may come to live in our studio for a while, (if not permanently).

NOTE: I will be repeating this post at least at …….RP.

[Son of Mixerman]

I am assuming you do not have a manual?

If my assumption is correct then get one. The manual has everything you need to know about getting your machine back on track. It gives you the list of tools you need to make all the required adjustments. I don't have my manual with me at the moment.


Once you get the manual and the tools the best thing to do is start figuring out how to do everything yourselves. Techs on tape machines are a dying breed and the more the merrier. My machine is working fine so I haven't had to become too knowledgable quite yet. I've been asking the people at ArtistPro to make a DVD on how to service various tape machines. The problem with the number of techs diminishing is the cost of the existing techs is astronomical.

Anyhow, it sounds like the tensioner or the tach is out of adjustment. If you have to use it in mean time you can manually move the tensioner to see if the reel starts to take up. I had a E-16 that had the same problem.

Ask Eddie Ciletti as his site or one of the bbs he hangs out at.

sorry I caint be mo hepfu.

SoMm

[Uli_the_Grasso]

The manual is important, yes. Maybe just a fuse has blown. Does the ATR-60 use DC motors? If it does, a motor might be defective, so you have a real problem with that tape machine. If it uses an AC motor, a capacitor might be defective, so you can fix it rather easily.

[The Ghost of FM]

Check the fuses.

Cheers!

[ausrock]

Hey guys, thanks for the tips.

Ghost,

I would love to think that's all the problem is as it would mean a quick fix and the possibility of bringing the machine over here a lot sooner. The owner is considering selling it so it would give me a chance, once it is fixed, to check it out at my leisure and decide whether we want to buy it or just look after it, as it isn't being used where it is.

I presume your "fuse" suggestion is, apart from probably being the easiest thing to rectify, is also based on some personal experience.

[The Ghost of FM]

I presume your "fuse" suggestion is, apart from probably being the easiest thing to rectify, is also based on some personal experience.

Not on your machine specifically but on a few other TASCAMs over the years with similar symptoms.

Cheers!

[ausrock]

Well the guy who owns it thinks he has the full Operation/Service manual for the machine, so if he can find that, then we should start making some progress. It would be much easier if the deck was here (it's only 15 minutes drive away) but due to it's size and weight, I'm reluctant to move it prematurely.

Stay tuned for further developments.........

[Son of Mixerman]

Well if you tune before you move it, prepare to tune it again possibly after you move. Nothing is ever as simple as a fuse is it? Its usually the last think I check for! Doh!

I love my ATR60-16


SoMm

[ausrock]

Keep your fingers crossed please guys..................I'm going over in the morning to start troubleshooting the ATR. The full manuals are there waiting with the deck and I've printed out the suggestions I've received so I let you know what I find.................I'll probably come back with even more questions .

[A Reel Person]

Sure!

You 'gotta' check the fuses as a preliminary troubleshooting point!

Check fuses with an ohm meter, too. I've seen where old fuses just "break", with no indication of being "blown", and it's hard to spot with the naked eye.

Let's hear it!

Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse!

C'mon! Everybody!

Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! Fuse! ...

[kilowatt]

...and voltage regulators!


The manual should tell you where to check for various voltages. Might be a common thing like a 2N3055. Anyway, you have two motors, measure for differences if you can.

[ausrock]

Well this morning didn't happen and it now looks like being Monday hopefully............Kilo, thanks for that, it had already occurred to me to check voltages at the motors if possible.

[ausrock]

OK, so far it appears that fuses are OK, unless of course there are some we haven't found but all indications are they are all located (10 in total) behind the lower front panel.

Brake systems, solenoids, motor to hub connections, etc., all appear to be OK.

What I have learnt is that the motor supply (voltage) is a nominal 12/24V DC..........initially on startup, the motors receive 24V which is designed to get them rotating quickly and smoothly, this then drops back to 12V once they are running. Both spindle motors are the same, both have 3 leads (red, white and black which appears to be ground/0V)............when the system is at rest both the red and white show approx., 16V for both motors, when checking the LH (Rewind) Mtr, once the Rewind transport was activated the voltage on the white dropped to zero and the voltage on the red doubled to approx., 32V. However, on the RH (Take up) Mtr which is the problem, activating either "PLAY" or "F/FWD" showed no change in the voltage (stay a constant 16V) and no sign that the motor wanted to start rotating.

Considering my non-existant diagnostic skills and hopelessly limited electronics knowledge, I have been unable to figure out what controls the drop down from 24V to 12V.

Tomorrow I intend to swap the motors around in an attempt to eliminate them from the equation, this will either show a fault with the RH mtr or show that it is OK.

In the meantime, if anyone has any further suggestions they would be greatly appreciated.

[The Ghost of FM]

I would now suspect voltage regulator transistors on the motor logic board.

On my MS-16 a couple of years ago, the technician found a singular, heat sink mounted transistor that had failed and caused the entire transport to stop.

If you can spot them visually, they'll be the ones at the outside edge of the PCB assembly, mounted to an aluminum heat sink bar. Change them with the same ones, one at a time and you may discover one of them is not switching voltages to the motor.

Beyond that, inspect the wiring harnesses that feed the board and re-seat them if any of them look suspect in terms of signs of corrosion or being loose.

Good luck!

Cheers!

[ausrock]

Cool Ghost, following what you said I just traced through the schematic and ended up back at something I was looking at earlier tonight.............just got to see if I can source the part(s) locally.

Anyways mate, it's 2.45 am and I'm heading to bed..............many thanks.

ChrisO

[ausrock]

Motor checked out OK once I swapped it to the LH supply chain, it appears that both motors get their supply from the one source, this feed splits to supply each motors' "Joint PCB". One thing I can't figure at the moment is what the 2SD1047 transistor on the "TR PCB" does. Unfortunately, these things aren't the cheapest transistors I have found and sourcing them locally isn't over easy so we don't really have the option of buying a fistfull and swapping them over just to see what happens.......we have to attempt to eliminate and also understand components before we start surgery.

The pic shows the schematic for the "Joint and TR PCBs", if anyone can figure out what the TR transistor is there for please tell me.

Regards...........

[The Ghost of FM]

On my MS-16 there is a circuit flow explanation description earlier on in the manual before the schematic section that might explain what that transistor does in a text description.

I don't have the manual for yours unfortunately to tell you the page number to look at.

The transistors I was referring to was on the main motor control PCB which is a much larger circuit board then what you have posted here. It is a board about 7" x 15" in size and has all the logic circuits for all 3 motors.

Your on the wrong PCB in your hunt as far as I can tell.

Cheers!

[A Reel Person]

That's probably where you're headed: to Transistorville.

[ausrock]

Ghost, this manual doesn't have text of that nature and it would appear that there are considerable differences in the PCB's between machines.

Anyways, many thanks guys.

[The Ghost of FM]

Well, if it gets to deep in there for you, there's always professional technicians out there who I am sure can get to the bottom of it if you're willing to pay them?

The machine is definitely worth repairing.

Perhaps get an estimate first?

Cheers!

[acorec]

Originally Posted by ausrock

Motor checked out OK once I swapped it to the LH supply chain, it appears that both motors get their supply from the one source, this feed splits to supply each motors' "Joint PCB". One thing I can't figure at the moment is what the 2SD1047 transistor on the "TR PCB" does. Unfortunately, these things aren't the cheapest transistors I have found and sourcing them locally isn't over easy so we don't really have the option of buying a fistfull and swapping them over just to see what happens.......we have to attempt to eliminate and also understand components before we start surgery.

The pic shows the schematic for the "Joint and TR PCBs", if anyone can figure out what the TR transistor is there for please tell me.

Regards...........

Just a quick look here:http://www.ampslab.com/PDF/2sd1047.pdf

That transistor is the one that controls the voltage to the motor (which is a DC motor). I can't tell from looking at the schematic exactly since the control signals coming to/from the TR PCB are not named in the pic, But, I can tell you that the transitor in the pic is a 140V/12A/60 Watt trans. That is a hefty transistor. The base of the trans is the control pin, and the collector is connected to the motor directly. You need to put a Oscope on the base and watch for the signal to go "High" (it is an NPN tranny) when you hit the proper button. If you get a changing signal on the base of the transistor, and +24V on the collector, then the trans is bad (The trans acts like a switch to ground, completing the circuit for the motor). If there is no changing voltage on the base, or no +24V on the collector, then you have to trace through the circuit to find where the missing signal(s) is.

Good Luck.

[A Reel Person]

................

[Uli_the_Grasso]

Any radio & TV repair technician should be able to repair that thing. Why should we teach you, farmer, orthopedic doctor or what the heck your buisness is, electronics? Division of labour has some sweet sides.

I can say: "A standard 3055 should do, preferably with a strong diode layed antiparallel to C and E and another diode antiparallel to B and E." But do you understand it?

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by Uli_the_Grasso

Any radio & TV repair technician should be able to repair that thing. Why should we teach you, farmer, orthopedic doctor or what the heck your buisness is, electronics? Division of labour has some sweet sides.

I can say: "A standard 3055 should do, preferably with a strong diode layed antiparallel to C and E and another diode antiparallel to B and E." But do you understand it?

Uli,

We come here to help if we can and if we can't, or don't want to, we don't participate.

That's the way it works here.

If you don't like us, please leave and go where you will be appreciated.

But, don't ask questions like; "why should we teach you?"

If you have to ask that question, you don't understand the community nature of this place and you don't belong here.

Cheers!

[ausrock]

Thank you Ghost, I wouldn't have been so gentle with the reply.

I'm actually going to contact a tech friend about this as his years of experience will surely save me some hours of frustration.

In the last week I have learnt much about the basics of these machines and (possible unfortunately) it has wetted my appetite to get hold of some R2R gear..........I know of a local radio station that has apparently got a number of machines stuck in a store room doing nothing, so I will be contacting them shortly, if the dollars are reasonable things could get interesting.