Vocal Melody Troubles

[mindwave_21]

Hey all! Great section of the BBS if I do say so myself. I've got a question about vocal melodies for songs that I think you all can help me with...I'm STUCK. Ok maybe you can't help me with it . Anyways, I play guitar and have written some stuff I really want to write lyrics to, and every time I do, I sing it like it's got no body (well, that's how I interpret). The melody has no direction and basically just follows the changes (read root, fifth, and some notes in between which are probably quarter steps ). I'm getting frustrated because I feel I have enough musical knowledge and creativity to get the ball rollin. So here are a few questions:

1. Any advice you think will help me in this process? I've just realized that when I play songs, I just play them like changes and don't know the key of the song as a whole (I used to think they were the same thing...oh well...). I've just recently searched out the key of some songs of mine, so hopefully that will help me out. Any suggestions appreciated.

2. What do you think will help contrast or differentiate vocals from the guitar riffs. I'm not looking for counterpoint on guitar and vocals or anything, though that would be kinda interesting...Do you find that many successfil vocalists use more intervallic jumps or stay within the flow of small scale degrees? For example, singing something like the guitar intro to Dave Matthew's "Satellite" versus something like the vocals to Weezer's "Undone". Also, is the use of pentatonic scales more common than the 7-tone scales (Ionian, Dominant, Aeolian, etc.) in rock/blues blah blah blah?

3. Any bands or songs in particular to check out for inspiration? Any opinions welcome except rap, country, screamo hardcore. Sorry, but I can't stand country or screaming vocals...and well...rap doesn't really apply to my question.

I'm writing stuff on acoustic and electric guitar and trying to keep it within rock/blues/jam styles. For BG reference, I really enjoy DMB, Phish, STP, SRV, Weezer, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Soundgarden, & Chris Cornell among many other bands and artists. Also, I think Rob ??? from Matchbox 20 has a great way of forming a melody that is totally different from the guitar riffs. I guess what I'm looking for is a melody that is strong enough to be sung a cappella and still get the point across.
Thanks for all the great help.

[nopoetic]

the best tip i can give is stop thinking so much and just do it. you have to feel the music and not think so technical all the time. i mean besides the obvious, there isnt much you need but creativity. just feel it and it will come out how you want.

[mikeh]

It is impossible to provide speific information on creating melodies - however I have observed one thing that songwriters tend to do that very much limits the melody lines.

Many writers, write a melody line that they can sing. The problem is - many writers are not good singers. So the melody ends up within one octave (or whatever the limited range of the singer is). This completely steals any potential for dynamic melodies, large jumps, etc.

If you happen to fall into that catagory, recognize that you need to write the melody from more of a musical standpoint (vs. can I sing this).

I can't speak for everyone, but once I accepted the fact that I am not a great singer (and stopped writting melodies that were within my limited range) I became a much better writer.

[mindwave_21]

Thanks for the tips guys. Nopoetic, I was trying to throw as much info as possible into the post to keep the question from being vague. However, I rarely think to that extent when trying to come up with music. I ususally do first, then if I need to, I'll figure out why it sounds the way it does later on...
Thanks for the tip mikeh.

[Arif Driessen]

There is no absolute rule book for pop. As much as any pop song may seem to be written just for the sake of pop, it still requires an actual feel. an actual, "yes, this really does sound good." However, of course find out and mess around with whatever is sucessfull, but keep it for educational matters, don't try to write a song based on something else that happened to be really good / sucessful. The chances are, you'll come out with something crap because it wasn't spawn with love.

About your melody problem. Try composing the melody first.

[Layla Nahar]

You asked about vocal melody vs guitar riff - I'd say vocal melodies tend to not use leaps, but rather stick with smaller intervals. Just try humming stuff over your changes and keep it up. Myself, I have a lot of trouble with not being satisfied with what I've created. The thing is to keep making it. Many people have quoted the number 100 to me. You gotta write 100 bad songs before you start getting some good ones.

[mindwave_21]

Thanks for the inspiration Layla. I guess it's me not being satisfied with what I have. 95 more songs to go...