Limiting while recording

[bennychico11]

I was wondering if anyone "approves" of, or likes to put a limiter on an instrument or voice while recording. I always figured the best thing to do is leave any processing until after recording just so nothing is destroyed and you aren't wishing you hadn't done that. But at the same time, clipping can be a pain when trying to mix it. So do you like to throw a limiter on or just ride the fader and hope for the best?

[Twitch]

In hip-hop I do, R&B it depends, for limiting I just want it to fit in, not to sit in just yet. I would recommend doing both and find out with one you like best, if you are going to be screaming into the mic, then I would say slap a limiter. It's all about trial and error, mainly depends, some songs will need limiting and some will need compressing.

[Massive Master]

I've limited (note: not compressed) incomming signals on occasion if it's needed. Only a bit - Don't go overboard - It's a "safety measure" more than anything else.

If you're only trimming peaks, it gives you the oppotunity to apply more "traditional" compression in the mixing stage also.

So if it "needs it" go for it.

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by bennychico11

So do you like to throw a limiter on or just ride the fader and hope for the best?

My attitude is unless I had a very fine quality box to put into the chain, or for a specific effect, I'd rather leave it out. A safety net's fine if you're not in a position to have enough control over the situation or whatever, but with 24 bit, it's just as effective to just lower the record level. Nothing is lost there.
Wayne

[fretmeister]

Originally Posted by mixsit

A safety net's fine if you're not in a position to have enough control over the situation or whatever, but with 24 bit, it's just as effective to just lower the record level. Nothing is lost there.
Wayne

So, with 24 bit, it's not necessary to achieve high levels while tracking to reduce noise and digital artifacts, etc? Then I can record at lower levels to prevent clipping and this won't affect the final sound?

[crankz1]

You don't want to go to low, but yes if you keep your peeks no greater than -6db going in you will only lose 1bit.
If memory serves me .... I think it is 1bit lost per every 6db of reduction.
Which ain't much when dealing with 24bits. You can bring the levels back up in the mix.
With a 16bit card you want to try and get as much as you can ... peek as close to 0db as possible.
In this case the safety net of a limiter would be a good idea.

[Middleman]

If you are doing the one man band thing and engineering at the same time, heck yeah. You can't ride the faders and perform effectively so run a limiter on vocal and guitar or whatever.

When I am recording other people then I prefer to ride the faders and just a very light limiter as backup to slow hand movement.

[Mixerman]

Originally Posted by bennychico11

I was wondering if anyone "approves" of, or likes to put a limiter on an instrument or voice while recording. I always figured the best thing to do is leave any processing until after recording just so nothing is destroyed and you aren't wishing you hadn't done that. But at the same time, clipping can be a pain when trying to mix it. So do you like to throw a limiter on or just ride the fader and hope for the best?

Look, if it sounds like it needs limiting, and you put a limiter on the signal, and it's better, then by all means, us limiter. There is only one rule. Do what you think sounds best.

Yes, you can alway limit later, and if you're out of limiters, then limit later. But there is nothing wrong with limiting while you're recording. If you limit too much, live with it. Recordings aren't meant to be perfect.

I can't tell you how often I'll get a level on a player and set my compressors and limiters only to have him really dig in when it came time to make a take. I expect it and accept it. But, so long as the take is progressing well, I won't touch a thing. I'm trying to capture a magical preformance, not a prefectly limited sound. Once the performance goes to shit, then I start readjusting as necessary.

I recorded a take of one artist and the Pultec started spitting after the first line. It was the best vocal on the record. It was probably the best vocal of his career. Now, what if I had stopped the take, just because of some spitting? The vocal is on an album that sold a million copies, in all it's glory, with spitting pultec. The spitting only adds charm.

Mixerman

[Raw-Tracks]

Originally Posted by Mixerman

I recorded a take of one artist and the Pultec started spitting after the first line. It was the best vocal on the record. It was probably the best vocal of his career. Now, what if I had stopped the take, just because of some spitting? The vocal is on an album that sold a million copies, in all it's glory, with spitting pultec. The spitting only adds charm.

Mixerman

Mixerman,

Do you think you could program a "Spitting Pultec" preset for Universal Audio's UAD-1 card?
I would love to use that on my next record.

[eeldip]

you know what gear solution to this is kinda cool... there is this generation of boxes designed in the late 90s to go with ADATS that limited and added fake tape saturation.

i am thinking of the spl charisma (which i own) and the aardvark aardscape, but i am pretty sure there are more.

they kinda fell to the side cause frankly, they didnt sound like tape saturation at ALL. however, they are decent boxes for light limiting. they work for that. and they work well as distortion units (i use my spl charisma for snare and kick distortion all the time). and also they have "pretty" sounding line amps, in that they kinda accentuate the subs, clear the mud zone, and pretty up the top.

nothing you want to overuse, but they really are kinda cool. plus- as a line of failed products- they are CHEAP. i got my charisma for $135, i have seen aardscapes go for $75. if you think of them just as two distortion pedals, you already have your money back.

[glimmer_doll]

Originally Posted by Mixerman

If you limit too much, live with it. Recordings aren't meant to be perfect.

Mixerman

damn skippy mofo...seems like people are more interested in acheiving perfection than emotion in music today.

Fuck generic bands with generic songs and generic production tactics. I must be getting older...nobody makes albums that i love anymore...they're all starting to sound like overly polished shit...like how the hell is linkin park so popular...sounds like britney spears with loud guitars...

sorry for any offense to anyone...

[boingoman]

Cool thread. Good info.

Anybody who would be offended by comparing Bratney and Blinkin Park won't be able to read this anyway.

[Lance135]

I think limiting during recording is more of a safety net than anything. I would have really liked to have an eight channel limiter available for the drum recording sessions I've been doing lately. You just never know when the drummer is going to surprise you and overload the channel on a climatic passage, which on digital recording, means ugly sounding clipping.

[bennychico11]

Thanks all for your replies. Definitely some good opinions out there. I think I'll follow Massive's ideas on it though. Being able to effectively trim the peaks without going overboard. And definitely not "compressing"...but limiting.....that's a good point too.

"seems like people are more interested in acheiving perfection than emotion in music today." --glimmer_doll

I do agree with you in that. But I don't see it as the recording engineers job to create the emotion. This job is the musicians...and it has been sadly overlooked for a long time by them and producers alike. Our job as engineers is to capture that emotion and preserve it as best as possible. THAT'S why we are more interested in acheiving perfection. The way I see it, I could care less what emotion or musicianship the artist is able to convey. As long as I perfect my part of the job, then I'm happy. For that's the job I've been hired to do.

Anyway, I guess limit when you think it's needed. On a drummer who during warm up seems to be inconsistent with dynamics or a vocalist who likes to get as clos to the mic as he can on the chorus during a punk song and then back off during a verse...just use your best judgement. Thanks again alls.

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by glimmer_doll

like how the hell is linkin park so popular...sounds like britney spears with loud guitars...

p.s. here's a link I found of the group Nickelback. Someone put two songs of theirs on top of eachother...one in the L channel and one in the right. I'm sure they probably did a time stretch or something, but notice how extremely familiar they are?? Have we actually run out of interesting chord changes that a band has to copy another song of theirs to get a hit?

http://www.nintendorks.com/brandon/t...lbacksucks.mp3