2488, good buy?

[taperocket]

Hi, although I really like the sound of analog as opposed to digital. I can't afford a 24 track analog recorder, not to mention the price of tape, alignment/maintenance, and the fact that I don't have a nice board...so I'm thinking that digital is the way to go if I want 24 tracks...but I don't want a computer based system b/c 1 - my computer is pretty slow and 2 - I like to have everything in front of me. So what does everyone think of the new 2488? It seems like the best bet for a 24 bit 24 track digital recorder in terms of whats out there. Many people like the Yamaha AW16G but it doesnt seem to compare really with only 16 tracks, 2 xlr inputs, etc. Would any owners of either of these machines like to comment? Thanks.

[kragbax]

I picked up the 2488 very recently. Previously I was using the 788. I cut my teeth years ago on a Tascam analog 8 track at a friend of mines home studio. I recorded every chance I got on it, and though I never got really good at it, I was comfortable with the 8 tracks. Fast forward about 15 years, I was basically out of music for a decade and was no longer in touch with my home studio owning friend. But music is in my blood, and I really wanted to start recording my own songs again. So I picked up the 788. 8 tracks. Digital. Recorded a bunch of songs, did a demo for a band I started recently. My only real concern was in bouncing tracks. It's so final. That and the 788 needs an external CD recorder, which is another couple hundred bucks. So I unloaded the 788 for a fair price and picked up the 2488. It's really only a few hundred more then the 788, but has SO many more features - XLR inputs, 24 tracks (of which half are stereo pairs), built in CD-RW drive, USB port for backing up files on computer or transfering songs. Again, I just picked it up and am just working on my first song with it (controls are virtually identical to the 788 so no real learning curve for me) but so far I like it. WELL worth the price.

Like you I'd prefer analog but didn't want the hassles. I'd prefer a nice 32 channel mixer and separate digital recorder (Though I work on computers daily, I don't want a computer based system), but the cost would climb sky high. There may certainly be better digital recorders out there, but for just $1100 the 2488 gets my vote for recorder of the year.

[taperocket]

Thanks Krag, sounds like we have a lot of similar opinions on the issue! Anyone else?

[taperocket]

Krag, one more thing...how exactly do these stereo pairs work? I know they can't be seperated for mixing but...can the two tracks be recorded seperately? What have you found these useful for so far? I"m thinking overheads, top/bottom of snare, gtr w/delay...Thanks again.

[mrx]

taperocket -

Check out www.tascam2488.com - plenty of supporters, but actual quotes (below) suggest 'you get what you pay for...'

"...the machine froze a few times."
"...after I get my deck back from the repair shop."
"Is anyone else having this latency (if it is latency), problem ??"
"...Ive just settled on the point that the original firmware release must be flawed in some way and hope for a fix."
"If this is state of the art, I give up."
"After powering down, losing 7 tracks of vocals..."
"I had to send a paying customer home unhappy..."
"...my stereo outputs just fizzled away...Smells like something might of burnt up"
"I'll let everyone know how it works out and hopefully what the cause was...In 6 to 12 weeks"
"...they should find a way to split the stereo tracks or quit advertising it as a 24trk machine."
"...insane that it was not corrected before release."
"...we are talking about 5 hours of bouncing to prepare the files for export "

You get the idea. Tascam did the same thing with the PS05 - released it with bugs that caused data loss, took forever to fix it, and then basically abandoned the product. Notice how few 2488 posts there are on this forum - seems strange for an 1100 dollar 24 track... Shop around.

[kragbax]

I read the tascam2488.com boards. Sure there are problems with the unit. Sure the interface isn't perfect. It's a new piece of hardware, and it's bound to have issues. But virtually everyone there that posts love their machines, problems or not - because you'll end up spending a lot more to get what you get with the Tascam from another manufacturer - and you will undoubtably still have issues/problems.

Some of the problems mentioned are user errors with not backing up. Anyone who works on computers should know to continually back up their work - even if it's just a Word document, because computers are funny that way. It's not really different working on these types of machines because they are basically just computers with propriatary software. Open one up and you'll probably find a Samsung hard drive (usable in a regular PC were you willing to reformat it) and CD Burner.

Anywho I've read Yamaha boards, Korg boards, Fostex boards, Roland/Boss boards, researched their 'similar' products as well as Zoom, Akai, etc. They ALL have issues. All the brands have hardware failures occassionally. Software issues other times. For my money I picked up the Tascam, and so far haven't had any issues (knock on wood).

[mrx]

Originally Posted by kragbax

I read the tascam2488.com boards. Sure there are problems with the unit. Sure the interface isn't perfect. It's a new piece of hardware, and it's bound to have issues.

The nature of the problems are the issue, and indicative of a trend by Tascam. Using customers of the product as front line support and releasing bugs that cause data loss - and taking too long to fix them - are one thing, but there are too few users on that board to blame the lock ups, burn outs, and trade ins on anything other than a seriously flawed product. Time will tell, I guess.

[KEVIN1600]

That doesn't sound good at all I'm glad I got a BOSS BR 1600 CD!! I looked at the TASCAM but it looked to good (and NEW) for the price

[philboyd studge]

Damn, I just lost a long response.

Anyway, I own one, it works, and I reccomend it.

[kragbax]

to quote:
"Sure I'm bummin but I'm the only one that this has happened to
I had one other problem besides this and it happened once and never again
It's a killer machine and I'm bummed out because I don't have it"

This from the guy who said at least a few of the 'negative' lines mentioned above. He also goes on to say:
"So by all means if this machine fits your needs buy, buy, buy"

Though he is having a problem, he still sees the value and usefulness of the machine and doesn't seem to have any regrets with owning it.

Are there better machines out there? Absolutely.. a ton of them. But doubtful for the < $1100 you can pick one of these up for these days.

[mrx]

Originally Posted by kragbax

to quote:
"Sure I'm bummin but I'm the only one that this has happened to
I had one other problem besides this and it happened once and never again
It's a killer machine and I'm bummed out because I don't have it"

This from the guy who said at least a few of the 'negative' lines mentioned above.

Nothing to hide - I posted the link and the fact that users seem satisfied at the top of my post. Tascam has a recent history of over hyping and under supporting products and this one has all the hallmarks of another.

[freshmattyp]

I can recommend the 2488 highly. I've had mine for 3 months and it has performed flawlessly. The only knock is the display. It's not good at all. I get aound this by using a lighted magnifying glass if I'm doing anything intensive on the screen.

So far, I have only used the 2488 for tracking. I dump to PC for mixing in Cubase. This works great for me. I did a ton of research before buying the 2488, and it's the best thing out there for the price.

[philboyd studge]

Originally Posted by mrx

Nothing to hide - I posted the link and the fact that users seem satisfied at the top of my post. Tascam has a recent history of over hyping and under supporting products and this one has all the hallmarks of another.

Do you own one?

[mrx]

Originally Posted by philboyd studge

Do you own one?

I gave it a long look and went with another product. I hope Tascam fixes the bugs and decides to support the 2488, but until they stop over hyping products that they release before they're finished, I won't hesitate to give prospective buyers a 'heads up.'

[philboyd studge]

Originally Posted by freshmattyp

I can recommend the 2488 highly. I've had mine for 3 months and it has performed flawlessly. The only knock is the display. It's not good at all. I get aound this by using a lighted magnifying glass if I'm doing anything intensive on the screen.

So far, I have only used the 2488 for tracking. I dump to PC for mixing in Cubase. This works great for me. I did a ton of research before buying the 2488, and it's the best thing out there for the price.

Are you running .wav files out on the usb port or just mixing stereo files? So far I'm still happy with my mixes on the 2488 since the effects and eq are so similar to the 788, then I'm still using the spdif out method for stereo mixes to prepare for 16 bit on Sound Forge. I'm thinking I might want to work on individual tracks on the computer and then run them back to the 2488 before mixing.

As to the display, either I'm getting used to it or it's getting burnt in and brighter. Still, there's no way you can do any serious visual work on a waveform with it......or any other machine with a lcd display of any size or brightness for that matter.

[kragbax]

What would have been great is Tascam using the USB as a better way to interface with a PC and be able to view things on you PC screen instead of the little LCD. Some included software to install on your PC should do the trick. Course then you open up a whole new can of worms (bugs). And with the USB also be able to interface with programs like Sonar, etc. so it could act not only as a stand alone recorder but as an interface with software recording. Then you could record your tracks on the 2488, plug in USB and upload to PC... record more if you want, etc.. mix on your PC, or make the changes on PC and bang.. cut a CD.

But then for all that.. you're talking more then the $1050. Ah well.. you learn to work with what you're given!

[funkoptimus]

Originally Posted by mrx

taperocket -

Check out www.tascam2488.com - plenty of supporters, but actual quotes (below) suggest 'you get what you pay for...'

"...the machine froze a few times."
"...after I get my deck back from the repair shop."
"Is anyone else having this latency (if it is latency), problem ??"
"...Ive just settled on the point that the original firmware release must be flawed in some way and hope for a fix."
"If this is state of the art, I give up."
"After powering down, losing 7 tracks of vocals..."
"I had to send a paying customer home unhappy..."
"...my stereo outputs just fizzled away...Smells like something might of burnt up"
"I'll let everyone know how it works out and hopefully what the cause was...In 6 to 12 weeks"
"...they should find a way to split the stereo tracks or quit advertising it as a 24trk machine."
"...insane that it was not corrected before release."
"...we are talking about 5 hours of bouncing to prepare the files for export "

You get the idea. Tascam did the same thing with the PS05 - released it with bugs that caused data loss, took forever to fix it, and then basically abandoned the product. Notice how few 2488 posts there are on this forum - seems strange for an 1100 dollar 24 track... Shop around.

Talk about taking things out of context!!! I can look at any product support forum prvate or not and find similiar posts.

[mrx]

Originally Posted by funkoptimus

Talk about taking things out of context!!! I can look at any product support forum prvate or not and find similiar posts.

" I've only recorded a couple songs with it and I've run into at least a dozen bugs."

"Tascam tech support is worse than the line at the DMV, and they seem a little cocky on the phone..."

"I don't use my recorder every day but with all the problems we members are reporting I feel it's only a matter of time..."

...and my favorite from Tascam:

"Thank you for contacting Tascam Support
There are currently no Firmware Downloads, what problem are you experiencing?"

Regarding 'context', just read the other site. There are three categories of users:

"Casual" - Folks new to recording, or those who could get by with a cassette 4-track. They don't use 10% of the machine's functionality and may not have encountered many issues yet.

"Serious" - These are the guys who are locking up, discovering OS issues, and ultimately having hardware failures.

"Tascam Junkies" - The unpaid 'insiders' who assure others that 'Tascam is aware of the problems and working on a fix...' - these are also the guys who run anybody off the board who feels Tascam should be taken to task - God forbid they lose their 'moderator' status. It's so typical of them - a couple idiots get an ego stroke when people think they work for Tascam, so instead of sending a clear message of frustration back to the manufacturer, disgusted users trade in and move to another vendor.

Seems the guys using the thing the most - recording 8 tracks at once, long sessions, etc. are the ones having the most trouble and that points to design and hardware, not something that will be fixed with an OS patch.

[funkoptimus]

Do you really think it is bad?? Or are just bashing it? Honestly I think you are doing both. Which really isnt all that honest. But I need to ask in the most polite way. Why do you have a grudge and what do you recommend??

You just seem to bash Tascam without helping the user. Suggestions?

[KeithS]

Originally Posted by mrx

"Tascam Junkies" - The unpaid 'insiders' who assure others that 'Tascam is aware of the problems and working on a fix...' - these are also the guys who run anybody off the board who feels Tascam should be taken to task - God forbid they lose their 'moderator' status. It's so typical of them - a couple idiots get an ego stroke when people think they work for Tascam, so instead of sending a clear message of frustration back to the manufacturer etc. etc.

Sounds like someone who has had some experience with getting "run off the board" at Tascamforums.com. People get banned from the boards for very few reasons and are usually warned first. As MRX could probably tell you, calling other people names (like idiots) is going to probably get you a polite request to act like an adult and refrain from Ad Hominem attacks , and if you persist you are going to be banned from posting. Also, lengthy attacks on companies or vendors are not something that is tolerated as meeting the forum's goals. The forums are there to allow end-users of Tascam products to assist each other. They are NOT there to send any "clear message of frustration back to the manufacture" or to vent your scorn on other users. Folks that want to let the manufacturer of another user know how they feel about them can fire up their email program and tell them personally. They don't need the forums as a conduit to accomplish that.

The forum has served as a way of collecting information and sending it back to TASCAM in a productive and professional manner. The firmware problems in particular were indentified through the forum and communicated back to Tascam leading to work on a firmware update. Forum members were also responsible for identifying work arounds for glitches pending the release of new firmware. Overall, it is far more effective to work with the each other and the people at TASCAM to solve the few issues that we have, that to sit around and boo hoo about corporate America. Its a classic example of lighting a candle instead of cursing the darkness.

Cursing will get you banned from the forum too, MRX.

[KeithS]

Originally Posted by taperocket

Krag, one more thing...how exactly do these stereo pairs work? I know they can't be seperated for mixing but...can the two tracks be recorded seperately?

I think your question got lost in the noise. Yes, you can record each side of a stereo pair seperately. The 2488 has 250 virtual tracks and you can pick and choose any of the 24 mixer channels to assign them to. You could for isntance record two tracks on one of the single channesl and then assign both of those tracks to a linked pair. The stereo pairs can be used to record stereo sources, to bounce to stereo, to bring in clones of various mixes for quick comparison, record external stereo effects, etc.

[mrx]

Originally Posted by funkoptimus

Do you really think it is bad?? Or are just bashing it? Honestly I think you are doing both. Which really isnt all that honest. But I need to ask in the most polite way. Why do you have a grudge and what do you recommend??

You just seem to bash Tascam without helping the user. Suggestions?

It's an old story, but I was having a bad experience with another Tascam product at the same time I read an article in Forbes about the state of consumer electronic and computer equipment. The article argued that crap documentation, inflated marketing claims, poor design, and flawed product releases (expecting end users to perform testing and bug tracking) had reached epidemic proportions and users had to draw a line in the sand and put a stop to this practice. Maybe it was bad timing for Tascam, but everything the article talked about mirrored what I was going through and I have made it a policy since that time to be much more critical of bad products, bad support, etc.

It's not just Tascam (I've posted joke responses I've gotten from m-Audio, Korg and Fostex support, as well.)

As far as helping the user, if this thread has caused you to take a closer look and make an informed purchase then it is worthwhile. As you can see from Keith's posts, he's a big fan of the 2488. There was a guy on that forum who had nothing but trouble with it and went with the Boss which worked right out of the box for his application. Wayne on this board has said great things about the Korg 16 track and I went with the Fostex.

My point with the 2488 is that as a consumer I'd be worried about a machine that appears to suffer a relatively high rate of hardware failure and was shipped with some serious software issues that Tascam has taken too long to address - even if the fix comes out today, it never should have shipped that way, and certainly should not take this long to repair when people are losing data.

[mrx]

Originally Posted by KeithS

People get banned from the boards for very few reasons and are usually warned first...

They are NOT there to send any "clear message of frustration back to the manufacturer"...

Overall, it is far more effective to work with the each other and the people at TASCAM to solve the few issues that we have, that to sit around and boo hoo about corporate America.

Keith,

I wasn't talking about getting banned, but rather the tendency of the other board to 'shout down' any valid criticism of the product. Obviously sales figures will tell the story, but not every user is content to sit and read Dr. Who's vague 'updates' about bug fixes. You obviously disagree, but the decision to squash dissent is causing otherwise valuable members of your community to go with other products.

[KeithS]

Originally Posted by mrx

I wasn't talking about getting banned, but rather the tendency of the other board to 'shout down' any valid criticism of the product......

Challenging a person to defend his/her facts or questioning the facts as presented is hardly "shouting down" someone. The person is still heard. Both opinons are there for any reader to use to make up his or her own mind about which opinion or statement has more credence. Now if you are suggesting that other members of the board not be allowed to question or argue points of fact with posters, I would argue that is interfering with their ability to dissent.

Clearly, from the quotes that you cherry picked from forum, you have shown that the forum allows a discussion of what problems are cropping up with the machine and what can be done about solving them. The only kind of "dissent" that has ever been stifled are the times when posters have used the forum to climb up on their soap box and disparage vendors and manufactures or to make personal attacks on others members. I'll state again, that the mission of the forum has primarily been one of providing users mutual online support that TASCAM is no longer able to provide. We are not there to promote the sale of any TASCAM product, nor are we there to serve the agendas of individuals with axes to grind. I think one bottom line for us is that in using the TASCAM name for the forum, we know that we could well end up like the Taylor Guitar forum which is now the Acoustic Guitar Forum. Because of manufacturer bashing, Bob Taylor took action to deny the use of the Taylor name and logos to that forum. We hope to avoid going down that same road with TASCAM.

Originally Posted by mrx

......the decision to squash dissent is causing otherwise valuable members of your community to go with other products.

Again, we are not there to promote the sale of TASCAM products.

But.....these valuable members must use a different set of standards than I use when I make a major equipment purchase. I usually look after my own self interests rather than what someone in a privately operated forum says I can say there. Personally, I feel that if someone is going to decide against a TASCAM product based on the actions of some third party that has absolutely nothing to do with TASCAM, then they probably weren't motivated to buy the product much in the first place. People purchase or don't purchase products based on what is best for them and their own financial situation......not on what some fellow over behind the tree is doing.

[mrx]

Originally Posted by KeithS

...support that TASCAM is no longer able to provide.

...for a new $1200 product that, to be generous beyond reason, is experiencing 'teething trouble.'

There, my friends, is the end of this thread in a nutshell.