OH Mics

[Drake19]

Hey everyone. How is everyone? So, I'd first like to say that I've been hanging around this, and other home recording forums, and have learned quite a bit from everyone here. On to the question. I'm about to start construction on my home studio, which I'll be starting from scratch by the way, and have been thinking about mics quite alot. The problem I'm having is picking a pair of overhead mics. I've been thinking about either a pair of C4'S or CAD M179's. Those I've picked based just on research I've done here, and through out the net. The thing is, my budget is around 800-1,000 dollars for a pair. So, I can afford quite a good pair. I know it would be best to audition each mic, however, I'm not able to do that rite now. So I would just like some suggestions, and would like to hear what you like for OH's. My genre of music will be mostly rock ie. punk,nu-metal,emo, and the like. And my room, by the way, will be rather large. Most likely, 15 foot cielings, and the room will be rather large also, I don't remember the exact dimensions. Ohh, and Harvey, what would you think about T.H.E KA-04/KR-2C as overheads. Have you tried those in that situation? Well, thanks in advance everyone. And, if you need any more info from, just let me know.

[DJL]

FWIW, I use Josephson C42's the most for drum overheads... and a Sennheiser MD421 on kick... and a Beyer M201 on snare.

[noiseportrait]

If you have that kind of cash to spend, then the big boys rave about the new Josephson c42s. One of the studio standards is the AKG c451. Either of these mics would be GOLDEN as a pair of overheads. I've head great things about the T.H.E. mics, but the Josephsons and the akgs by far get the most recomendations for overheads.

[krimson]

I have the C4's and am using them for the first time as I type. They seem to sound nice. The only other overhead that i tried is the Rode NTK(in mono) and it was really nice too, but I want stereo. If you have lots of cash then try the C42 pair.

[EleKtriKaz]

The Neumann KM184s are pretty nice for overheads as are Coles 4038s, but the Coles are quite expensive.

[darnold]

I was going to suggest the AKG C451s myself but im sure the Josephson C42 would also be great. The Neumann KM184s might need a little saving up for to get. They are great but a little bright in my opinion. I used them on a recording a while ago and the sound was good but a little on the airy side so they might not do too good for the punk stuff. My favorite for punk stuff is the AKG C414s, although you would need to save up a little bit for those too. But they are incredible mics besides overheads.

Wrd

Danny

[Ronan]

I Have probably recorded hundreds of drum sets with all sorts of mics and the Shure KSM32s are my favorite OH mics at any price (and I work in studios all over the world with closets packed with all the big name mics and I keep going back to the KSM32s)

[Drake19]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Hmmm... C42's are $950 for a matched pair at Mercenary Audio, so they're in my budget. Ronan: I was just reading an interview with Eddie Kramer and he was talking about recording drums with just three mics, and he mentioned that you would need a really good overhead mic like the KSM32. He mentioned the KSM32 along with U47's and U67's. The KSM32 would be a great option because of it's versatility. I guess maybe you could call it the AKG C414 of home studios. Speaking of which: Darnold, I was just waiting for someone to mention the 414's. I really am going to have to do some more research and of course audition these mics when I can. Thanks again.

[darnold]

Ryan Greene of Motor Records also uses the AKG C414 for his drum overheads, although he switches to some Audio Technicas at times.

Alot of people dont like the sound of these at all, but for punk "in your face" sound thats exactly what they do. They dont have much of the airy sound. Its more of a tight warm dry sound.

Wrd.

Danny

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by Drake19

Ronan: I was just reading an interview with Eddie Kramer and he was talking about recording drums with just three mics, and he mentioned that you would need a really good overhead mic like the KSM32. He mentioned the KSM32 along with U47's and U67's. The KSM32 would be a great option because of it's versatility. I guess maybe you could call it the AKG C414 of home studios.

No. I think its wrong to call the ksm32 the C414 of home studios. I would take the KSM32 over the 414 for over heads any day of the week. If I had a choice of only having one of the two, I would take the KSM32. Eddie and I both work in studios where we have great selections of mics to choose from. I use the KSM32 because its a killer mic and to me a much better mic than a 414.

[Track Rat]

Check out the Earthworks mics. My overhead fav.

[gemsbok]

i will be trying (2) audiotechnica 4040-s i read there a good choice also. should be doing a project this month so i will let you know how they work.

[cominginsecond]

If you end up getting the C42, do yourself a favor, and just buy two singles (not the matched pair) from cascademedia.net. For rock stuff, the singles are well matched enough, and you can save $150 over buying the matched pair from Mercenary.

[EleKtriKaz]

I read something in a magazine recently about how Velvet Revolver did drums for their new album. The producer, Josh Abrahams, was saying that for a lot of the album they used three neumann u47s as overheads, one left, one middle, and one right, and then a mic in front of the kit...an LDC I think, but I can't remember the name of it. The drums on the album sound pretty good.

Not suggesting you go out and buy three neumann u47s, but it's pretty interesting how many different ways there are to record a drum kit.

[Drake19]

Ronan: what I meant by the KSM32 being the 414 of the home studio was just the cost of the mic is so much more affordable for the average home studio owner.
Elektrikaz: I think part of my problem IS the fact that there are so many sonic possibilities that it makes it hard to narrow down your choices. But, the best part is, there are no "rules"!

[DJL]

And many people own more than just one pair of mics that could be use as overheads.

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by Drake19

But, the best part is, there are no "rules"!

But you're wrong, there are rules, and they're there for some very good reasons. The trick is to understand the rules, then at least you'll know when, and how, and why you're breaking them. Anything else is just "dumb luck".

If you had said 'But, the best part is, sometimes "dumb luck" works best!', I would have no quarrel with that statement.

[Drake19]

Originally Posted by Harvey Gerst

But you're wrong, there are rules, and they're there for some very good reasons.

If you had said 'But, the best part is, sometimes "dumb luck" works best!', I would have no quarrel with that statement.

Hey Harvey. Thanks for the reply. I've actaully thought about this alot. Whether there ARE rules. I respect your thoughts and ideas very much, and you have a ton of experience. And, I have learned alot from just reading your posts and the articles on your website. But, from what I have learned from everyone here and reading interviews with pro engineers and the little bit of recording I've done myself is: I don't consider there to be any hard and fast rules in recording. I view what some might consider rules more as guidelines. Such as frequency responses, eq settings, room modes and compressor settings etc. have guidelines a person should follow to get the best results possible. However, where I do consider there to be no rules is mic choice, mic placement, where you record and how you end up recording. Geoff Emerick told a story of John Lennon putting a small condensor mic in a plastic bag, and then filling a glass jar with water and then putting the mic in the jar and then singing into it. Yet, I do believe a person should know what they're doing and why they're doing it. I mean I would never put a kick mic on an amazing classical guitar and expect it to sound like heaven. Perhaps that's what you were thinking of. If not, I sure would like to know what these rules are .

[Harvey Gerst]

Originally Posted by Drake19

I don't consider there to be any hard and fast rules in recording. I view what some might consider rules more as guidelines. Such as frequency responses, eq settings, room modes and compressor settings etc. have guidelines a person should follow to get the best results possible. However, where I do consider there to be no rules is mic choice, mic placement, where you record and how you end up recording. If not, I sure would like to know what these rules are .

Well, the 3:1 rule is a good place to start. But so many of the questions here are precisely because someone didn't understand some of the basic rules about microphone selection, or placement. Or people reaching for the EQ when the best solution would be to move the mic slightly.

So many times I hear about someone copying the vocal track and sliding it a few milliseconds to delay it to "fatten" the track. They don't realize that with a weak FM signal, the stereo channels are automatically summed to mono, and their lovely vocal dissappears almost completely, leaving an interesting instrumental track.

Yes, there are a few rules that most people really should learn if they wanna get serious about really making good recordings. And yes, you can and should break them if the effect justifies it, but unless you understand how you're breaking the rules, you're just guessing - and trusting to luck.

[Warhead]

Drake, I have a mono overhead clip here using an M179:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...d=2079&alid=-1

It's through 4 different preamps. Kit is an Arbiter maple with various Zildjian and Sabian cymbals.

I use the M179 on overheads a lot.

The KSM32 would be awesome too if you've got the cash for those.

War