Survey: Live Instruments vs. Synthesizers

[Rock Star 87]

I have heard both sides of the story when it comes to synthesizers. Many say, and i believe that no synthesizer can imitate the emotion of a musician with an instrument. Let's say you have a great setup, Sonar 3, Finale, 3 high-end keyboards (I won't start a brand war for sake of discussion), and 2 electronic drumsets, all very expensive. You know what I mean, the works in a nutshell. Do you think synthesizers beat a professional musician with an instrument? Before you reply, consider the following:

1. Sound
2. Emotion
3. Convenience
4. Practicality
5. Money is not an object
6. Overall Sound Quality

[AlChuck]

Huh? A synthesizer is an instrument. Guys like Joe Zawinul and Jan Hammer can play them witrh a great deal of expression and beauty.

[Rock Star 87]

i meant a synthesizer in place of another instrument, such as a trumpet or sax. maybe synthesizer as an instrument wasn't what i was going for.

[Bulls Hit]

I don't have any synths & sometimes I think I could use one just for something different.

And then I pick up my Les Paul and I happy again

[moskus]

Both.

And this post doesen't belong in the Cakewalk forum...

[Qwerty]

Horses for courses.

Having a virtuoso playing the part in the perfect room with the perfect instrument will ALWAYS sound better than someone trying to fake it on a synth. An average grade kid in high school with the same tools in the same room would also probably sound better than Don Eerie playing the latest $xx,xxx keyboards from Korg et. al..

Can you get away with it?

Shit yeah!

Most people have tin ears these days.

Q.

Just don't expect to pass the fakes off as the real thing in the clinic...

[Beltrom]

I can't help but reading your question like "is an AVERAGE keyboardist with a sax-patch a better sax-player than a GREAT sax-player with a sax?"...

It's kind of leading...

But the answer has to be "it depends"...

To me as a homereccer the synth wins 3 & 4. But I might do it with my trusty Casio DH-100 for a nudge more realism. Otherwise in your scenario the proplayer should win, why else would he be pro?

But sometimes a synth playing a "saxy" sound is what is needed - and then the saxplayer is definately out of his league...

[minofifa]

I think the sound of a synth can be very convincing as a real instrument sometimes (expecially for piano or orchestra) but for me the idea of adding synths to my music is a new tool in my toolbox. I'm not as efficient with synths as i am with recording my band. When it comes to bass for example, i think both methods can achieve good results, but i would get it done quicker by recording somebody playing bass, rather than me adding bass via midi.

[James Argo]

Originally Posted by Rock Star 87

...consider the following:

1. Sound
2. Emotion
3. Convenience
4. Practicality
5. Money is not an object
6. Overall Sound Quality

Be it programmed synthesizer, or live session.

Make up your mind.

Gimme decission.

What exactly do you want to record?

[The Seifer]

use real samples

[Rock Star 87]

[QUOTE=Beltrom]"is an AVERAGE keyboardist with a sax-patch a better sax-player than a GREAT sax-player with a sax[QUOTE]

i never said an average musician, i said a professional musician, though i didn't clarify that i meant in the studio, not live.

[tombuur]

As a guitar player I have to vote for a live musicians. All sampled guitars sound ridiculous.

[VTgreen81]

Most synthesizers are based on subtractive synthesis. Nothing (at best very little)created by this method will give an accurate representation. Additive synthesis can but is so labor intensive it's cost prohibitive. Anyone here using additive synthesis?

[Beltrom]

[QUOTE=Rock Star 87][QUOTE=Beltrom]"is an AVERAGE keyboardist with a sax-patch a better sax-player than a GREAT sax-player with a sax

i never said an average musician, i said a professional musician, though i didn't clarify that i meant in the studio, not live.

Actually you didn't mention what level the keyboardist/synthesist should be at, only the professional musician with an instrument (which i guess is not the synthesist as that was the comparision) - as far as I can tell. Almost as if the keyboardist didn't matter. But I quoted you between lines and did so tongue in cheek. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

My answer was sincere though. My reason for not using a "real" musician specialized on a certain instrument I want to use is convenience and practicality. Of course this means I settle for less than optimal, and that is fine by me. I'm no pro, and i don't plan to be. My music is for me, my family and friends.

I basically acknowledged your view, be happy!

[Beltrom]

Originally Posted by tombuur

As a guitar player I have to vote for a live musicians. All sampled guitars sound ridiculous.

Yes, on all guitars and sometimes bass I do play real instrument. Sometimes I I use my Variax though - does that count as guitar?

Originally Posted by The Seifer

use real samples

I agree that samples sound more like real instruments as that is what they are. And I don't think that [Rock Star 87] excluded them. But at the same time there's something to be said for the emotion and expression in a real synth. Samplers and sampleplayers often gives me a feeling that I "trigger sounds", but my analog synths I play. Maybe that's just me...

[happyguy]

Do they make "breath controllers" still, like I had on my Yamaha DX 100 ?

[Beltrom]

Originally Posted by happyguy

Do they make "breath controllers" still, like I had on my Yamaha DX 100 ?

Interesting thread I found looking for an answer to that question...
http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultim...;f=18;t=010456

don't miss:
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodbth.htm

Anyone can blow!


But I'm pretty happy with my DH-100
http://www.ncci.net/virgil/midiwinds.htm

[moskus]

Originally Posted by The Seifer

use real samples

Define "real"...


(Sorry, I just coulnd't help myself)

[MaKettle]

I think it depends on the song. I play electric bass, upright bass, guitar, and congas & timbales. I've worked as a professional session player so I am a competent player. There have been times when I've recorded a real bass line, only to replace it later with a synth bass because it captured or created a nicer essence for that particular recording. In these cases, though, I've not tried to use a synth to emulate a real bass, but rather to add a different bass voice, so that may not speak too well the the question you are asking. With certain instruments it's almost a toss up between real or synth. A trained ear can easily hear the difference, but your average listener can't. A well recorded sample can be just as good as live playing on a track if it's done well, but once again, it depends on the song and genre. They each have their place.

[tedluk]

Originally Posted by VTgreen81

Most synthesizers are based on subtractive synthesis. Nothing (at best very little)created by this method will give an accurate representation. Additive synthesis can but is so labor intensive it's cost prohibitive. Anyone here using additive synthesis?

I have a Kawai K5000R. I don't use it as much as I should. I keep promising myself I'll spend more time because it can make some amazing, evolving, non-repetitive sounds unlike other synths in my setup.

This is one of those silly discussions that doesn't really have an answer, but helps to pass the time (read "waste").

Someone said earlier that it's just another tool and that is correct. Any instrument, in the right hands, can be made musical that goes from kazoos and slide-whistles through to the most massive modular synths. A "Musician" makes music. Great ones master their "tools" and produce works of lasting significance and beauty.

Don't think synths are "real" instruments? Go buy a Wendy Carlos album.

Happyguy- Yes, they still make breath controllers. Yamaha has the WX5. Never played one, but I'd love to try it.

Ted

[The Seifer]

Originally Posted by moskus

Define "real"...


(Sorry, I just coulnd't help myself)

A sample of an instrument that exists in the universe recorded with a microphone PROBABLY.

Most orchestrated soundtracks to TV shows and some movies are made with samples, and you would never know because it sounds so real.



Losers: YeAh RIgHt SeIFeR!!!

Seifer: it's true

[minofifa]

true true seifer

go tot eh garritan orchestra sample webpage, lots of stuff (including some of the tunes on CSI) are made by samples.

When it comes to orcheastra work, i would much rather use samples than a real player. For one, it is many times quicker. Also i would have no clue as to how i should record a violin player. with the right effects and hareware (like mod wheels and velocity sensative keys) a library of samples can sound pretty convincing

[The Seifer]

Yep. I've got my eye on the vienna symphonic library. If someone paypals me $3000 I'll buy it and show you how good it works.

[Rock Star 87]

it's not that hard to record an instumentalist. As a sax player, i record myself all the time. here's what i use effects and hardware wise.

Shure Beta 98H/C clip-on condenser mic
soundstage fx plug-in
compressor plug-in
Analog warmth plug-in (when appropriate)
Pro Audio 9 for recording and mixing (also playback accompianement)
Line 6 POD Pro Modeler
Monster XLR cables
Soundforge for mastering

c, it's not that hard with the right equipment