cutting/pasting

[robjh22]

Hate to admit I don't know how to do this, but here goes ...

I play solo classic guitar, and often have to play a song 5-6 times before I am satisfied with it. I do not want to do any of this compositing (?) business (use the bridge from this take, the second verse from another take, and so on), but I would like to be able to play the song 5 times in a row without stopping the recorder, re-winding, and arming the track again on ech performance. Why can't I record a song over and over until I like the way it sounds, stop the machine, delete everything from 00h 00m 00sec up to where the good take starts (and this may be 4 minutes into the program), then cut and paste the resultant track onto a new track that begins 5 seconds after you hit "play"?

Alternatively, can you just cut and paste the song to an earlier part of the same track where the previous bad takes were taking up space before you deleted them?

It's very demoralizing and groove-interrupting to interrupt a song when you hit a bad note, stop the vf80, rewind, re-arm, hit record again, get back in the chair, get composed, etc. Especially if you do it 5 times in a row! Thanks, folks.

[dave in toledo]

what about punching in, thats the way to do it without making a composit from peices on the computer....

[robjh22]

No punching, I don't think. We may be talking about 1 note that needs different texture, not a whole passage; besides, I'd feel a little dishonest, no offense to those who do punch in.

So my idea won't work?

[billisa]

Originally Posted by robjh22

Hate to admit I don't know how to do this, but here goes ...

Why can't I record a song over and over until I like the way it sounds, stop the machine, delete everything from 00h 00m 00sec up to where the good take starts (and this may be 4 minutes into the program), then cut and paste the resultant track onto a new track that begins 5 seconds after you hit "play"?

Alternatively, can you just cut and paste the song to an earlier part of the same track where the previous bad takes were taking up space before you deleted them?

Yes John, you can do exactly what you want to do, which is why working digitally is so much nicer than analogue tape. Because the VF160 cut and paste procedure is slightly different than on the VF80, I don't want to say too much, but the VF80 way is actually easier! You basically have to set your "in" and "out" points (these are the places on either end of the good material that you want to move). You can find these by getting somewhere near the spot, then by going into waveform scrub. Select your track, and use the jog wheel to set points prior to and just after the material you want. If I recollect properly, using the screen and the (SHIFT) F1/F2/F3 buttons, or via the arrow keys, you can highlight the "in" (where the cut begins) and "out" (where the cut ends) and then the "to" (where the material is going to) points.

So, say at 5:57 you hit the "in", at 9:32 you hit the "out"; then you rewind back to 00:00:01, and set "to". Then hit "enter/yes" to activate the paste. NOW KEEP IN MIND THIS IS FROM MEMORY AND MAY NOT EXACTLY MATCH WHAT THE PROCEDURE ACTUALLY IS. BUT THIS IS CLOSE.

If you make a mistake, just hit UNDO/REDO once, and you're back to where you were prior to the paste.

Remember, COPY and PASTE takes the material and copies what you selected and puts another copy of it wherever you want, leaving the original where you left it. MOVE and PASTE actually moves the material and leaves the space where it was blank.

All of this is on p.63 and you need to use the TRACK EDIT button to get into all this. It sounds way more complicated than it is, and soon becomes very intuitive. You can move anything to anywhere. KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS MOVING IS NOT INSTANTANEOUS AND CAN TAKE A FEW MINUTES TO FINISH, DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH MATERIAL IS BEING MOVED. For instance, I once moved a whole song on tracks 1-6 from 10 seconds into the tracks to half a second... This took about a minute or so for the machine to finish the move. The screen will show you how much material is left to move as the process commences. I believe it will say MOVE COMPLETED! when it's all over.

Lastly, I think on the Fostex USA site there's an easier explanation than in the manual for COPY/MOVE, PASTE. Check it out under the support area.

Don't worry, it becomes easy, and you'll love operating this way.

[robjh22]

That was me, Bill, not John, but thanks. You know, you should offer to write the manuals for all Fostex products. You make this stuff sound fun as well as easy.

You know, I remember (and still have) the CD you sent me with those commercial spots. My stuff is not nearly as good, nearly as ...quiet, I guess. I don't know if it's your mikes or what, but I've got a ways to go to get in your league. Are you self taught, or did you ever study mixing mastering somewhere?

[billisa]

Originally Posted by robjh22

That was me, Bill, not John, but thanks. You know, you should offer to write the manuals for all Fostex products. You make this stuff sound fun as well as easy.

You know, I remember (and still have) the CD you sent me with those commercial spots. My stuff is not nearly as good, nearly as ...quiet, I guess. I don't know if it's your mikes or what, but I've got a ways to go to get in your league. Are you self taught, or did you ever study mixing mastering somewhere?

Geez Rob, you're very kind... As it happens, I'm self-taught, but I like to listen to lots of recordings and analyze how certain things were done, what sounds nice, how certain things seem to work, etc. I also read as many articles as I can on things like: "mastering your own recordings", and the like, and I tend to remember 2 or 3 main points from each. As a kid I used to tape cardboard over the erase head on my dad's cassette machine, trying to imitate the multi-tracking stuff on Sgt. Pepper and Revolution #9!

The upside is, once I understand something, I can usually explain it more simply; the downside is, without technical engineering knowledge, it takes me a while before I actually do understand some things... So, I get to where I want to go through trial and error, whereas others know which buttons to push and what to adjust and by how much, almost immediately.

Just yesterday I was emceeing a local Music Festival for about 10,000 people and one of the main sound engineers was about 22. She has more technical know-how in her head than I ever will. Just excellent. BUT the beauty was they were using something I created on my VF160 as the Festival Song! People wanted copies! It's a small thing, but it felt great.

As to the mics... I'm using Studio Projects B1's and the Studio Projects VTB1 preamp. The mics are comparatively very quiet, and the preamp is dead quiet, and I only record vocals at night to lessen neighborhood noise.

Lastly, I thought "Bulgarian Bumblebees" was wonderful. Wasn't that yours? You obviously know what you're doing.

[robjh22]

Gosh, to hear your own recording in such a big venue! Terrific.

Here is the sequel, or "B" side, to Bulgarian Bumblebees:


https://home.comcast.net/~robjh22/01-AudioTrack_01.mp3

If that link doesn't play, try:

http://home.comcast.net/~robjh22/01-AudioTrack_01.mp3

Dinner is served.

on edit: something happened to the lead guitar, which you can now only faintly hear, echoing the whistled interlude. oh well.

[Tubedriver]

billisa pretty much hits the nail on the head.
Just hit play and keep playing until you are satisfied. The vf80 will record for ages!
All I'd say is, just speak into the mic..."take 1", "take 2" etc at the start of each new take so you know where you are.
When you listen back, just note down the start and end points of each take as you are listening.

Tube