424 mlk III in need of serious H~E~L~P!!!

[Brother John]

Greetings!

I purchased a 424 mlk III back in Novemeber 2000. I have used it quite a bit over the years, but I have always taken excellent care of it and have been pretty consistent as far as cleaning and demagnetizing the heads. Well, i'm sad to say that i've encountered my first problem with it in nearly 4 years. Just to give you a bit of background info (because I fear my problem may be related to my heads) I have been using a head cleaner I purchased at Radio Shack (w/Isoprpanol). It has been really hard for me to find head cleaners anywhere else (c.d. and electronic stores use to sell them everywhere and now they don't, even though they still sell tape decks in all of the home stereo's they have. i don't get that at all!?!?) I have always used conventional head cleaners and my recordings have always sounded great.
I also use a TEAC demagnetizer.
For some reason, I am having a hell of a time hearing what I recorded on Track 3. When I do a level test, the level is very hot, so I know that it is definatley picking up the signal (i can also hear it in my headphones, so I know it's not the mic or a faulty connection of any kind) However, when I play it back, I get one of three possible results. (1) What I recorded is not there at all (2) What I recorded is there, but it's nowhere near the level it should be and it sounds awful (3) It plays back fine and the levels are what they should be (extremley rare, but it did happen once during my tests)
At first I thought the solution was simply to clean the heads, and that worked, but when I moved on to the next song I was getting nothing on Track 3 again. This is driving my nuts because I ping-pong all the time to get as many tracks as possible and I simply cannot avoid using Track 3. So, does anyone have any suggestions as to what I could possibly do to fix this problem? Also, I happen to live near the music store where I purchased the unit and they have excellent technicians there. What do you think they *should* charge me for repairs? Since i'm not very good with repairs, chances are I will bring it in to them, so I could really use your help on this, even if it's a ball-park figure.

Thanks for your time,
Brother John

[boingoman]

I won't claim to have the foggiest without checking the thing.
The repair shop I subcontract in has a kind of flexible "bench charge" for evals. If we check it and can't figure it out, N/C. If we find the problem and get the job, N/C for the eval. If we find the problem and you go elsewhere, we just kinda figure out what's fair for our time. A lot of times it's still N/C, like "dude, your wall wart is dead, N/C."

Repair shops have a wide range of rates, just like anything. Our labor rate is $48/hour. Then you gotta buy parts.

Good luck, hope it works out.

[Revmuddy]

Did you try a NEW cassette? My 424 is finicky about the tape and will do things like that sometimes......clean pinch roller and guides? Beyond that..best bet is to take it to a tech...or you can send it back to Tascam. The turn-a-round at Tascam has not been bad for me, and they were fair $

[Brother John]

i've never cleaned my pinch roller and guides. in fact, i'm not even sure what they are! if you could descibe where and what they are and how to clean them, i'd really appreciate it!
and as a matter of fact, i did just switch to a different tape (Maxell II "S" instead of just regular Maxell II) however, i did tests with the Maxell II and one time everything worked o.k. and the other time Track 3 was very low (not even registering on the eq) i can't go on with a moody 4-track, it's got to work everytime, period.

Thanks,
Brother John

[AM Wood]

I'm a total dumb dumb with this stuff - but the pinch roller is the round black rubber thing that the tape touches - i clean it with a q-tip with isopropyl alcohol and i am careful not to place the qtip on the wrong side lest it get stuck in the mechanism. As for the guides I'm not sure what they are either. I just clean the heads with head cleaner and the pinch roller with isopropyl alcohol. I have yet to degausse - sounds scary.

[The Ghost of FM]

Forget the whole subject of cleaning heads, guides and pinch rollers.

You have an internal, electronic problem and even if someone was lucky enough to guess how much it will cost you, what does that get you other then a broken Portastudio and addition monetary concerns to make you toss and turn at night?

Take it in, get an estimate at a qualified shop and see where you stand after that.

Odds are, you're looking at 2 hours of labor and 10 bucks in parts to get it going again.

Cheers!

[Brother John]

Hey Ghost of FM, you were close, but not quite right. It only took 30 minutes of labor and there were no new parts added/replaced. In total, it cost me $40 (Canadian).

Brother John

[andyhix]

so what was the prob?

[AM Wood]

Yes please tell us what the problem was, because it just happened to me last night! I can't get playback on track 4, despite a hot signal to tape. The playback is virtually non-existent and does not even register on the meters at playback. I cleaned my heads and pinch roller just before using. Please help!! I'm stuck with 3 tracks and I need at least 4 for a demo I am late submitting.

[Brother John]

the problem was a loose connection within the 4-track. if you can get it serviced for a reasonable price like I did, it's worth it. i have used my 4-track quite a bit since I got it back and it sounds great now. good luck!

Brother John

[AM Wood]

Do you know where the loose connection was?? Last night I tried again and voila! - it worked just fine like it always has. Track 4 came thru fine, but I'm worried that this could strike again at any time. Is there any other insight you or another TASCAM long time user can share?? Thanks again for your help and info - much appreciated.

[Brother John]

the tech guy started to explain what connection was "loose" and I just completley tuned out. sorry, i don't have the patience for technical "talk", i'm just a dumb musician.

Brother John

[AM Wood]

I hear you brother - me dumb too - but last night the problem came back just as I was flying thru the 3rd and final demo for my by now way late project. Again, track 4 is a ghost only. Could you PLEASE give me the contact info on your tech guy??? This is an emergency. I realize it's in Canada but my new long distance company is supposed to be real cheap so I WILL call the dude to get some clue how to get thru this demo and then I'll send it in or bring it somewhere for service. Thanks a 1,000,000!

[timmerman]

1st july, Leeds, UK, 2004

Dear folks,

I have just been reading some of the problems you have encoutered with your 242, well I would like to share some of my encouters with you.

I bought my 242 two years ago, and used to clean the heads and rubber with isopropyl. Machine kept working fine for one year, then I ran into the same problem as one of you did: One track would not record properly. I needed to clean the head, could play the machine once and then it was back to square one again. Since my machine was still under guarantee I brought it back to Tascam. They checked it, gave it back saying: "Machine is fine". Well I was not happy with this, and within a week they send me another one. The one I have got now is fine.


The Tascam engineers told me not to use isoprop. as a cleaning fluid, it will make the heads stick. Instead it is better to use the stuff which is recommended in the manual. I bought this from Tascam, it is not cheap, but I least you do not have to worry about problems. The rubber-cleaner is no longer available[ hey guys, how come that you sell a unit, but do not provide any of the accessoires anymore ] anyway, someone told me you can clean the rubber with a bit a spit on a Q-tip, but before you do this make sure that you brush your teeth first[only kidding, okay?]

So some of the problems you may have encountered may be due to cleaning, or they may be purely electronical.

Hope you will not run too often in this kind of troubel in future, and in the meantime keep yourselves happy making music.

Greetings,

Eddie

[AM Wood]

Thanks for your insights. My TASCAM is just over a year old so I'm not sure what they will do for me if I need to fix/replace. I am going to soldier on with 3 tracks for this project (who needs bass?) and then seek a resolution somehow. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[AM Wood]

If you have been following this story here's the latest: I called TASCAM in California and spoke to a nice, wizened tech. He tells me that I need to:

A) clean my heads again without using an alcohol based head cleaner. He says to use Chemtronic (?) or some other brand (I forget which but I wrote it down) of non-alcohol based head cleaner.

B) clean my pinch roller with Kingsford Lighter Fluid!! This I have to double check with him since I have no desire to see my MK3 go up like Johnny Human Torch when I start laying down my "hot" tuba tracks. Then again, I do need a new BBQ grill. Why not go toxic!

C) STOP IMMEDIATELY USING MAXELL TAPE (damn, just bought a new pack). The TASCAM guy says that Maxell shreds like crazy and mucks up the heads. He recommends TDK SM tape which is made for TASCAM 424 compatibility. I'm paraphrasing here folks.

D) If all of that doesn't work and I am still cursed with phantom track #3, then I am to call him back and discuss.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the phone lines are open. Comments welcome from all.

[DigitalSmigital]

Originally Posted by AM Wood

Yes please tell us what the problem was, because it just happened to me last night! I can't get playback on track 4, despite a hot signal to tape. The playback is virtually non-existent and does not even register on the meters at playback. I cleaned my heads and pinch roller just before using. Please help!! I'm stuck with 3 tracks and I need at least 4 for a demo I am late submitting.

Hmmmm, make sure you haven't put the DBX switch in the SYNC position.

Sorry if somebody already said this...

[AM Wood]

sorry, you speakum unknown language to me - me dumb newbie.

dbx= noise reduction?? not sure whatcha mean? SYNC switch? I'll have a looksee tonite. The earlier parts of the thread make clear the problem situation, but I appreciate you trying to help anyhow. Thanks

[DigitalSmigital]

Yeah, the DBX is the built-in noise reduction on your 424, you have a 3 way toggle on the back panel, on, off, and SYNC. Only use the SYNC with MIDI for SMPTE. Sorry about that. That's tech-talk for "don't use it".

It would disable track four and use it for time code, which would produce the very symptoms you complain of.

[AM Wood]

Well, I followed the TASCAM tech's guidance to the letter and I am elated to report that my 424 is a 4 track once again. I also am fairly sure the TDK SM tape is noticeably better than the Maxell XL2 I have been using for a year. The Kingsford Lighter Fluid smells strong but it gets the job done. If this proper functioning lasts I won't comment again on this matter. Thanks for all your help folks!

[timmerman]

Hello AM Wood,

Sounds like you are back in the world of FOUR tracks, so that is good news for you. Don't you love it that almost anyone you speak to does have a different opinion about what tapes we should use? But let us not carry on to long about this one as the discussion seems never ending.

Eddie