limitations on my mr8 frustrating

[ACIDBANDIT]

I bought the mr8 about 4 months back to get my feet wet in the recording world. mission accomplished. now i find myself becoming limited with what i can do, especially when it comes to plugging in keyboards and drum machines which typically sound better with both outs (right and left) going into a stereo track (which i like to use ALOT). i was looking at the vf160.. can i plug in stereo outs from my synths or whatever into the outs and record like i could with the stereo channels on the mr8? the vf160 looks really appealing, especially with that 40g HD and cd-burner for such a decent price.

-dave-

[mrx]

What limitation do you find frustrating - the recording time? (Just not sure where you were going with the stereo limitation...)

[ACIDBANDIT]

no, i mean with the limited amount of tracks. i guess what im saying is that an 8 track isnt enough tracks for me. especially since that each stereo unit i use takes up 2 tracks, which limits me. thats why i was eyeballing that vf160, for the pricepoint it seems like a very reasonable buy. i wonder how much more of a learning curve is required with the hardware/software then the mr8, since the mr8 is basically a no-brainer.

p.s. i am aware of n track studio. i just dont like fondling in front of a computer

[gmiller1122]

an 8 track isnt enough

I hear you -- when I started on this board a few years ago, I thought all I'd need is a 4-track! I have a VF80 now, which I really enjoy working with. You get the 8 tracks, plus 16 additional tracks to mess with. However, I could see wanting 16 tracks down the road.

The VF80 is relatively easy to use. It takes some time, but the manual is clear. I have learned a lot by messing around with it, so I think you'd do fine w/this or the VF160.

Good luck!

g

[dave in toledo]

this unit is designed to be used in conjunction with the computer, i use n tracks, i get 88 cahnnels..... is that enough.....

50 buck for the program then you can have 88 stereo channels if you want....stll losts cheaper then upgrading to anothor daw.....

[jfrog]

on the vf08, you can do what you want - recording 2 channels at once or a stereo signal. The vf16 is similar with more tracks, and I believe more simultaneous inputs.

More tracks = less gymnastics with virtual tracks

If you don't want to record with your computer, the VF's are the way to go.

(Disclaimer: The vf08's is the only recorder I've worked with. There may be others out there that would be good to. Ask your doctor if VF is right for you.)

[ACIDBANDIT]

Originally Posted by dave in toledo

this unit is designed to be used in conjunction with the computer, i use n tracks, i get 88 cahnnels..... is that enough.....

50 buck for the program then you can have 88 stereo channels if you want....stll losts cheaper then upgrading to anothor daw.....

yeah, except i DONT want to be in front of a computer mixing and arranging tracks. i already stated this in a previous post in this thread duuuude

[ACIDBANDIT]

Originally Posted by jfrog

More tracks = less gymnastics with virtual tracks

If you don't want to record with your computer, the VF's are the way to go.

EGGS-ACTLY The mr8 has the same stereo, 2-track simultaneous record as the vf80. except with the mr8 you have to bounce tracks 1-4 to 5/6, then record the next set of stereo tracks like you did with 1-4 on tracks 1-4 again. When all is said and done, you have to bounce everything to tracks 7/8 for mastering and/or wave file conversion. here's a simple diagram of this mumbo-jumbo if it confuzzled you:

TRACK 1 =---[R]--> 1 stereo track (ie: keyboards)
TRACK 2 =---[L]--^

TRACK 3 =---[R]--> 2nd stereo track (ie: drum machine)
TRACK 4 =---[L]--^
|-------------------------------------------------|
||
||
[bounced to tracks 5/6]

--- then lay over new stereo tracks on 1-4 again ---

Basically this gives me about 4 tracks total when i'm using stereo recording, i could do mono recording and get a full 8 tracks but synths and drum machines just dont sound that
great on a mono track. sorry, this was long and probably unnessecary.

-dave-

[Lt. Bob]

If I were buying something right now ...... the VF160 would be high on my list.
I use a Fostex HD-1624 with a Mackie board and I might wouldn get the new version with 24 tracks (HD-2424 ?).
But I like analog boards.
But if I were going self-contained as in a DAW ..... it'd be hard to beat the price/value of the VF160.
My Fostex has been dead reliable and stable.

Ya' know ....... that new Tascam 24 track DAW is gonna start coming down in price soon.
But you already have experience with Fostex's way of doing things so it could be easier to stay with them.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by ACIDBANDIT

EGGS-ACTLY The mr8 has the same stereo, 2-track simultaneous record as the vf80. except with the mr8 you have to bounce tracks 1-4 to 5/6, then record the next set of stereo tracks like you did with 1-4 on tracks 1-4 again.
-dave-

What's better about the VF08/80 is that after combing tracks ( say 3 sets of stereo on tracks 1 - 6) onto tracks 7 & 8, tracks 1-6 are still there...so you can move them to 6 virtual tracks, thus preserving them in their original unmixed state, while freeing up tracks 1-6 subsequent recording.

[ACIDBANDIT]

Originally Posted by Lt. Bob

Ya' know ....... that new Tascam 24 track DAW is gonna start coming down in price soon.
But you already have experience with Fostex's way of doing things so it could be easier to stay with them.

yeah, i was looking at the tascam too along with korg and yamaha recorders. however, like you just said i am kind of familiar with fostex's integrated OS and their setup/layout of the recorder so I might just stay with them. Not to mention my mr8 has been a solid peice of gear.

-dave-

[junplugged]

that 2488 is looking very nice. I can't even believe the price, my Tascam 8 track cassette 488 was $1200, then my Sony mdmx4mkii was $700 and MR8 $300. So 24 tracks for the price of my old 8 is nice. I am finding the MR8 to be a pain now that I'm trying to actually produce something and not just sketch out song ideas, or fun jams. I can't remember what I paid for my Fostex X-15 in 1985, maybe 4 or 500?

A 16 track DAW for under $1k w/ decent mixer - like some knobs - w/ usb 2.0 and either flash ram or HDD would be ok, but I haven't really been looking lately, I'm now looking for monitors.

[junplugged]

Lt. Bob, you use the Mackie analog board for input, obvously, and then I guess you also mixdown on it too? Do you mix back to the stand alone dig. rec.? I was looking at the 2424, dl'd the manual, looks good, but then I started looking at digital mixers and was thinking, insanely, that I'd like to have an analog board to record w/ and a digital board to mix, does anyone do this?

[Lt. Bob]

Sometimes I'll mix back to the stand-alone unit .......... sometimes I mixdown to a CD-burner. Kinda depends on how many channels I've filled up.

But I'm missing something here. Why would you need two boards?
I haven't used a digital board but I would assume that you could use it for both purposes too, just like an analog board.

[Jimmie]

I'll sell you my Fostex G24S (24 track 1" tape machine) if you need more tracks. Don't forget you can always bounce tracks unless you need to record more than 8 tracks at one time.

[bsr2002]

Yeah I'm happy with my MR-8, since I'm only doing the one man band recording thing I just add my tracks with computer.

[ACIDBANDIT]

Originally Posted by Jimmie

I'll sell you my Fostex G24S (24 track 1" tape machine) if you need more tracks. Don't forget you can always bounce tracks unless you need to record more than 8 tracks at one time.

How so? You have to bounce tracks 1-4 to either 5/6 or 7/8, and if you plan on wave file conversion everything needs to be bounced to 7/8. Unless you are talking about the fostex g24s machine instead of the mr8, then i really have no idea what your going at

[carelessorc]

VF160 owner here. I know what you guys are saying. Been there with 4-Track cassette, 8-track on tape and minidisc - never enough tracks! A VF16 solved the problem, I later upgraded to a VF160 for the bigger harddrive, the built-in CDR and the quieter operation. (And it was the cheapest recorder I've bought). 16 + 8 tracks seems to be enough for most things, although I've just started using N-Track, with a view to being able to mix all 24 when necessary, and I did wonder whether it might be worth buying another VF to sync to the first one, 32 + 16 tracks - drool!!

'Orc

[dave in toledo]

hey since folks like you and me dont mind using the computer to mix, (althought its good enough for people to ask advice on), remember you get 88 tracks with n track. lthats lots to drool over

[robjh22]

"The VF80 is relatively easy to use. It takes some time, but the manual is clear."

Well, gmiller, hats off to you. Even Fostex admits the vf80's manual is HORRIBLE. Bad english and poor organization. All the info is there and once you know it, you know it, but I still say it is an awful manual.

You guys sure about recommending all these multi-track machines to amateurs? The old pros got by with 1 microphone and 1 take in many cases. Too many tracks is more opportunity to create mush. There are an awful lot of happy mr8 owners here. Ihave the vf80 and never saw any need for this virtual track business: 6 is enough.

And AcidBandit, you need to change about computers. Sooner or later you'll be in front of 1 anyway making the mp3 to uplod somewhere and then share. Take Dave In Toledo's advice. He knows stuff ... he's from Toledo.

p.s. Dave in Toledo: n tracks is $50??? Why is cooledit and cakewalk so popular at $300?

[mrx]

[QUOTE=robjh22p.s. n tracks is $50??? Why is cooledit and cakewalk so popular at $300?[/QUOTE]

At $300 people don't feel as bad about stealing them...

Seriously though, I'll bet n-Track has a much smaller percentage of pirate users than 'major' apps.

Back to your question, part of the issue is the growing pains associated with shareware software. I tried early versions of n-Track and ran away screaming after it wouldn't even install. Now that it has matured and is getting great word of mouth the user base is exploding. Of course marketing also has something to do with it - you're paying for all those full page Cakewalk ads...

ACIDBANDIT - It really is painless to use the MR-8 with a computer. I'm copying tracks as I write this - using nothing but the MR-8 to record (with the original card) I'll end up with a 10 or 12 track mix after only a couple drag/drops to my PC.

[ACIDBANDIT]

Originally Posted by robjh22

You guys sure about recommending all these multi-track machines to amateurs? The old pros got by with 1 microphone and 1 take in many cases. Too many tracks is more opportunity to create mush. There are an awful lot of happy mr8 owners here. Ihave the vf80 and never saw any need for this virtual track business: 6 is enough.

And AcidBandit, you need to change about computers. Sooner or later you'll be in front of 1 anyway making the mp3 to uplod somewhere and then share.

Amateur? HA. who said anything about being an amateur? I've been mixing, sampling, and creating multi-tracked music on my comp since I discovered IMPULSE TRACKER when I was making music out of my mom's basement at age 15 (and if your thinking to yourself, "what the hell is impulse tracker?" just google it and you will discover yourself a wonderful peice of DOS software that as primitive as it appears, was a foundation for great software like n-tracks that you have today)


I'm trying to move away from the whole computer thing, I already spend alot of time on the computer posting here or researching information on music gear, technique, prices etc. Sure, I could record all my crap on the mr8 in my studio, then bring it over to my comp... and the go back and forth, back in forth, back in forth but to me that's just a pain in the ass. It's not convenient, and not everyone has the same setup and space to make it convenient. I'd rather have all the tracks available to me right in my workspace, without a computer to mess around with. It's all a matter of preference if you ask me, some people will love working with software to mix, add effects to their music. Others prefer actual hardware, buttons, knobs, sliders etc. I prefer sitting in my studio tweaking with buttons and knobs, getting the sound just right.

How can you say too many tracks is just an opportunity to make mush? According to your statements and what n-track is capable of, it has 88 tracks for mixing/mastering. A simple DAW that I would want has 16 tracks. Wouldn't a 88 track peice of mixing software create more mush, then a 16 track machine? Remember those were your words, not mine It's a matter of personal preference.

[robjh22]

An amateur means non professional. It doesn't mean you aren't good. But 88 tracks is absurd for mst of us. It's an opportunity to make mush, not a recipe for mush.

Good luck. If you can handle all those tracks, you da man!

[dave in toledo]

i like that, less inclined to steal the program ( you are very insight full, i mean it, that is really inteligent thinking,... flavio is smart for figuring that one out too....)

never thought of it that way.....

[gmiller1122]

robjh22 --

As an English teacher, I am annoyed with the grammatical errors in the VF80 manual, but the directions are clear overall. I understand there's a learning curve, however.

p.s. Dave in Toledo: n tracks is $50??? Why is cooledit and cakewalk so popular at $300?

nTrack is low-key. You and I have heard of it, but you don't see it advertised in gear catalogs -- they keep their price down, and we get a great product. For all the cash I've spent over the years on this hobby, $50 for nTrack was the best buy. CoolEdit and Cakewalk are popular because they are widely marketed. Pepsi and Coke bring in billions of dollars, but when you think about it, they're really rather nasty drinks, aren't they? Why don't we drink more iced tea or water? Because they aren't shoved down our throats, literally. If we could just get past the pretty packaging...

G