What exactly are transient sounds when talking about mics?

[Robertt8]

When they're talking about mics and transient sounds...what exactly are they talking about? What instruments have them what doesn't and why?

[chessrock]

Transients are fast, sudden, positive changes in volume.

Like a snare hit or a cymbal crash. Or a percussive bass guitar pop/thump.

. . . Or if I'm talking in a normal, consistant voice and all of a sudden out of nowhere I yell HEY ! ! ! , how's it goin' Robertt?

That kind of thing.

[Han]

The ping of a ride cymbal is a very fast and loud transient. Condenser mics can handle these transients much better because the membrane of the mic almost doesn't have mass.

[Robertt8]

so is that kind of like when I set the compressor to a really slow attack...and don't really get that initial thump?

Transients are typically wanted right? I mean if it's that original ping of a cymbal...or what have you...

[Middleman]

Well, they may be wanted but if they are too far out of range you risk peaking the diaphragm of the mic, or the electronics in the mic, or the preamp or the AD converters ability to handle excessive peaks.

At the very least you need to watch the mic response and put some distance between the source and the mic.

Preamps are rated on the hierarchy of great to lousy based on their ability to handle transients. They can smooth, limit or not handle at all peak signals. These and the overall sound are what you look for.

Limiters are designed to reel in potential transients.

So, you want them up to a point because they represent reality for the most part. But, you have to herd them into the corral of what the gear can reproduce, speakers can handle and what the average listener has become accustomed to liking in their sounds.

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by Robertt8

so is that kind of like when I set the compressor to a really slow attack...and don't really get that initial thump?

Transients are typically wanted right? I mean if it's that original ping of a cymbal...or what have you...

Bingo.

And yes, transients are a good thing. They seem to be an endangered species these days, though. Enjoy them while you still can.

View them in the proper context. Transients are best enjoyed when they are of a consistant nature; think consistant volume and rythmic, as in a drum beat. Abrupt transients -- i.e. random, not fitting within the rythmic structure, uncharacteristically loud, are usually less desirable.

Abrupt transients can be particularly offensive (even damaging) to the ear if they have a large amount of high-frequency content that our ears are sensitive to, i.e. a brash and harsh cymbal crash less than a foot away from your eardrum. Transients with a lot of low frequency content, on the other hand, can be quite pleasing. Particularly when it is of a rythmic nature, as in the steady, consistant pulse of an electronic dance beat.

[Treeline]

Think about what makes a low E sound different on an upright piano and on a 7' Steinway grand. It's the same tone, but the big piano will have all kinds of things going on that the smaller one cannot - including a sharp treble overtone that cuts through the sound for an instant when the low E is first hammered. That overtone creates a transient - a momentary hit of something surgical, powerful, chilling, even icy. And then it's gone the instant it appeared. What follows is the maturation of the tone and the overtones in a rich, delicious rendering of a low E. The transient appears - and leaves - in that first instant. It is hard to describe, but after you really hear that quality in the sound, you will never forget it.

[mixsit]

A real eye (ear ) opener is Ty Ford's bit jangling keys in front of a mic. Try it on a condensor with some headphones on. Even though the keys sound fairly quiet, most mics start turning all the high glitter into a shower of dull thuds at anything less than about a foot away.
Wayne

[Lance135]

Way to go, Mixsit. There'll be a lot of guy jingle keys into the microphones at music stores all over the world now.

[matty_boy]

Great thread.

[Han]

Try a loud tamborine in front of a not so good condenser and you will hear tons of distortion. Transients with a lot of high content.

[Robertt8]

hey thanks guys! you all rock!

this definitely clears a lot of that up. now i can add another little piece of the unfinishable puzzle known as recording. now if I only had the other 6 billion pieces...

[c7sus]

I thought this thread was a "how-to" mic a Bumfight!

[tubesrawsom]

snap ur finger in right front of an ok condenser and "were did all the snap go its all thumpy?" loud transients
correct me if im wrong
peace

[King Ghidora]

The jingle of keys has been used to judge mics for many, many years. I guess that was one of the very first things I ever learned about judging mics back in the early 1960's and it's still a good test today. I'm sure there are mics that can handle that tinkle but it has to be real quality or so I've heard.

Can anyone suggest a mic of sufficient quality to pass this test in the budget category? None of my mics will do it. But I haven't broke the bank trying to get a top notch mic by any means. I would would be interested in what mics will pass this test.

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by King Ghidora

The jingle of keys has been used to judge mics for many, many years. I guess that was one of the very first things I ever learned about judging mics back in the early 1960's and it's still a good test today. I'm sure there are mics that can handle that tinkle but it has to be real quality or so I've heard.

Can anyone suggest a mic of sufficient quality to pass this test in the budget category? None of my mics will do it. But I haven't broke the bank trying to get a top notch mic by any means. I would would be interested in what mics will pass this test.

One of the things I presumed wrongly was that clipping/thud sounding noise was apt to be mic overload. But it can just as likely be electronics down stream.
So yeah, an sm57.
Or, try your condensers again but this time pad the shit out of it before the pre.
Keep it way low on the meters. Now if you can get closer to the mic without the distortion, it was the pre not the mic.
I've tried this with an ADK ST (an inexpensive solid state LDC) and a QTC-1, and in both cases I was able to get a closer clean working distance by padding down. The QTC is ruthless in this regard. At min. pre settings it clips at a foot out on 'keys. With a 20 dB in-line pad, about three inches. Presumably, it's the combo- fast diaphragm(s) and high output- Watch out. The meters I have don't see this either.
A dynamic is pretty simple. Doesn't have internal amps to clip and by nature limits the transient output, and the pre gets a free ride at reasonable levels.

[King Ghidora]

I actually tried using a different pre-amp and turned the level down and got a clean sound out of my condensor. I did pretty much what you said before I had read your post. It was good advice. It solved the problem. No more clicking noises. Now I'll know how to get better sound especially when I have a problem with transisents. I knew I had to keep the level down with my mic anyway but this just proves the point.

BTW sorry about reviving a thread that was so old. I came here from a search on the subject and hoped to get info.

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by King Ghidora

... BTW sorry about reviving a thread that was so old. I came here from a search on the subject and hoped to get info.

Hell, go easy on yourself. Most people get knocked for not using search.
Cheers to you.
Wayne